[SPOILERS] Willem of Portugal (Dantski + Mukha)

[Mukha]

I don't know details and this is only my opinion. In principle you should play it the as closely as possible same way as previous time. If T73 did start previous time and you didn't declare, then you shoudn't do it now. If the T72 wasn't played to completion, then situation is more complex.

I'm still not even sure if I would want to declare even if I consider it ok to do so. But I think the situation is slightly more complex than you make out. We did play our t72 to completion, but the actions we took on t72 were based in response to Rome's actions on t71. Now it can't be doubted that Rome changed their actions on T71 as that was the entire point of the reload, so it seems strange now that we can't respond to those changes and so our actions this turn would now be responding to actions that no longer occured. Rome was allowed to make changes based on new information about whipping mechanics, while it seems we are not allowed the same courtesy. It is clear now with the whipping mechanics clarification that Rome could have a maximum of 2-3 spears in their capital (depending on if they whip again) with no capacity to whip again and no spare hammers, while previously they could have had up to 4 with overflow hammers to spare. This isn't based on any knowledge that Rome themselves have posted, it's purely based on the updated whipping mechanics information.

Also, the only reason we completed T72 early prereload was because we called off the attack in response to Rome's apparent actions and had adjusted the plan to go after Iron instead which made the first half of the turn more appealing.

If you consider it against the rules to declare this turn, Rome can now play this turn (a turn they hadn't played prereload) based on foreknowledge that we can't possibly declare. So what I'm saying is while we aren't even sure that we want to declare this turn and may end up playing it the same as last time, I'm arguing that we should be allowed to adjust our actions in response to our neighbour's changes.

[Dantski]

I am definitely 100% in support of us changing our actions.

Put simply, neither team was aware of the bug in whipping. Now that we BOTH are, we should BOTH be able to react to it.

I would consider it grossly unfair if we were not given the opportunity to change our actions when Rome was.

[novice]

Ahh, back in front of a computer.

I definitely see your point Mukha - but I still think you will get voted down in the tech thread. I guess it's up to you how much info you want to divulge to the other players to make your point.

Also your situation may be hard to address in a generic rule, so probably the hard and fast rule of "replay everything exactly the same way as before" will prevail.

I'm going to take a look at your video now - I have high expectations.

P.S: In my previous comment t72 should be read as t71 and t73 should be read as t72.

[novice]

So I was wrong yet again about Rome's army. Most they could have is 1 spearman if they don't whip again this turn and we declare at the EoT (T72).

Question to lurkers: would it be wrong to attack this turn considering we didn't declare before the reload on this turn?

I think it would be unfair if we had to stick to the prereload script. Rome was able to adjust their builds and moves after learning of the whipping bug it seems only fair that as their neighbour we are able to respond to their changes and also make changes based on our new understanding of whipping mechanics. It would also be unfair if Rome could make actions now relying on the fact that we couldn't declare this turn because we didn't before the reload.

I think everyone is impressed with Sumeria's self sacrifice, so I've been working on a video as tribute. It really needs some screenshots of a successful action vs Rome and some more screenshots from India to complete, but just in case that doesn't happen I've uploaded an incomplete version here anyway. Got the idea for this after getting these messages:

I really want to complete this video and use it as our first post in the Public Players thread. This game needs more taunting.

Very good.
I would suggest adding some of the quotes you listed at strategic moments in the video.

Do you have the lyrics of the song?

[Dantski]

Well if we have to play the same (ignorant of the bug), then shouldn't Rome play the same (ignorant of bug) too?

I know the unwritten rule is to play the same as before, but the situation isn't the same as before and we would've strongly considered changing things if we had known it too.

[novice]

It's not really up to us lurkers to decide that. What I wrote earlier was of course just IMHO. Maybe you should take the discussion to the tech thread - but I guess you'll have to decide whether you really want to DOW now (if you are allowed to) before you divulge your plans there.

[MWIN]

From Email thread, Rome 2-pop whipped a spearman but did not get one. After the re-load they should still 2-pop whip the spearman, but this time they will get one.

How are they playing differently now?

I'm still not even sure if I would want to declare even if I consider it ok to do so. But I think the situation is slightly more complex than you make out. We did play our t72 to completion, but the actions we took on t72 were based in response to Rome's actions on t71. Now it can't be doubted that Rome changed their actions on T71 as that was the entire point of the reload, so it seems strange now that we can't respond to those changes and so our actions this turn would now be responding to actions that no longer occured. Rome was allowed to make changes based on new information about whipping mechanics, while it seems we are not allowed the same courtesy. It is clear now with the whipping mechanics clarification that Rome could have a maximum of 2-3 spears in their capital (depending on if they whip again) with no capacity to whip again and no spare hammers, while previously they could have had up to 4 with overflow hammers to spare. This isn't based on any knowledge that Rome themselves have posted, it's purely based on the updated whipping mechanics information.

Also, the only reason we completed T72 early prereload was because we called off the attack in response to Rome's apparent actions and had adjusted the plan to go after Iron instead which made the first half of the turn more appealing.

If you consider it against the rules to declare this turn, Rome can now play this turn (a turn they hadn't played prereload) based on foreknowledge that we can't possibly declare. So what I'm saying is while we aren't even sure that we want to declare this turn and may end up playing it the same as last time, I'm arguing that we should be allowed to adjust our actions in response to our neighbour's changes.

[plako]

After realising you're basing your potential war declaration to info that you normally shouldn't have i.e. public thread and Rome's reload request there, I would advise against declaring.

[novice]

After realising you're basing your potential war declaration to info that you normally shouldn't have i.e. public thread and Rome's reload request there, I would advise against declaring.

I think they had been doing C&D which indicated that spears were being whipped prior to Rome's reload request.

[Dantski]

all moot now as rome double whipped another spearman (assume it was a spear) last turn and we decided not to attack

mukha seems interested in killing rome's scouting warriors now that rome has whipped most of their population away