In this case, its OK. It makes draconians defensive. They aren't great at conquering their myrran neighbors, but their neighbors have a hell of a time conquering them. Another reason to not reduce their armor. It becomes about smart use of magic to win, which matches the dragon lore of using magic.
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Myrran retort
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November 1st, 2017, 17:31
(This post was last modified: November 1st, 2017, 17:32 by zitro1987.)
But Draconians are not a melee race, they are a mixed race even without bowmen
low-tier: melee: spearmen, swordsmen ranged: shaman, (bowmen) mid-tier melee: halberdiers ranged: magician mix: (if melee caster 20 requires fighter's guild) high-tier melee: doom drakes ranged: air ship mix: (if melee caster 20 requires armorer's guild)
Shaman don't really qualify as ranged units, they don't deal enough damage to fill that role. They are support for healing and purification. When was the last time you built a Shaman of any type with the intention of using them for their ranged damage?
Shaman might have the same attack strength, but 2 less figures and half the ammo, plus they don't get a bonus for magical weapons, mithril, adamantium. Sure, they also don't get a ranged penalty, but the bowmen will be superior for those shots they manage to deal from a short range (a few for generic races as enemies approach, all of them for draconian although that is a problem of its own so let's not include it, still those few shots of +1 hit matter. I see a massive increase in damage output when the enemy gets close to my longbowmen or horsebowmen.) I agree the race has ranged in mid and late game (tho they don't get catapults so their mid options are more limited than normal.), but for early, shamans aren't enough. If anything, I would rather have the melee caster unit replace the shaman which already fail to have relevant ranged power. Something like : Draconian Saints - Requires Sages Guild and Shrine. Caster 20, and melee stats similar to halberdier. Or replacing the spearmen with that. That gets rid of the excessive cheap scouting capacity, a swordsmen is still cheaper than a magic spirit but not by that much. However that melee unit would always know Fireball. It's a nonfantastic nonhero normal unit, which is the definition of magicians that need to have Fireball spell in the list. And there is no room to add exceptions to that. I have no problem with Draconians knowing fireball, though - they breath fire, too, so it makes sense. Actually, this isn't a bad idea. Replacing their Spearmen with this new unit. We might want to replace their shaman with priests, too, while at it, or even make them stronger and racial, requiring both the shrine and the parthenon. If draconian excel at magic and are ranged, they should have better than just common shaman. So, summary. Draconian Bowmen - stays but costs 50 and maybe loses an attack strength or hit chance or 2 ammo. Draconian Spearmen, Shaman - gone Draconian Saints - slightly better than Priests in other races, plus 1 ranged attack power and figure, but requires shrine and sage's guild/parthenon. Draconian Firespeaker - Caster 20 unit, melee attack lower, breath attack higher than halberdier, requires Shrine/Cathedral and fighter's Guild/sage's guild/armoer's guild. Draconian Magician - probably needs +1 ranged attack strength or more ammo to not get overshadowed by more durable "saints" that have somewhat less attack power and requirements. This makes the race stronger, not weaker, though. Might be a bad idea.
Definitely a bad idea. Flying + ranged is the whole problem. Making them into a defensive melee race is the goal. That's why we suggested a single figure melee caster with the battlemage special ability.
We don't seem to agree on what the problem is nor on what the goal is. Myrran is already overcrowded by superior melee races so that's not an option. Also melee works poorly as a defender. If the enemy has ranged units, you're dead, flying or not.
Oh well, will need to play the race first then decide, anyway.
November 2nd, 2017, 05:40
(This post was last modified: November 2nd, 2017, 05:41 by zitro1987.)
Yes, Draconians would have limited 'range' early in game if bowmen are removed, but draconians fly, and turn-1 allowance of flying range (with 8 shots!) with a basic unit is game-breaking and too easily abused by human players. If staying, the number of arrows simply must be decreased to about 5 to make them at least comparable with sprites in damage potential.
Changing shamans with a priest unit is good, not sure we need a new priest-like unit as that could make the race too good. The slower priest benefits from airship. Draconians don't need stronger magicians ... they fly. That's already very powerful. Draconian firespeaker requiring armorer's guild (do doom drakes require fantastic stables?) and sage guild have very different requirements than doom drakes and may benefit from air ship to move as fast as doom drakes. Yes, it will be a powerful combo, but thing of the variety of buildings a city will need to build a versatile optimal army.
btw if there is a race that needs a new caster unit, melee or otherwise, probably otherwise, is the dark elves. Despite being the "most magical" race in the game, they don't have one. (Sure, warlocks are better with their doom bolt but still strange to not get a caster at all)
November 2nd, 2017, 07:58
(This post was last modified: November 2nd, 2017, 08:03 by Nelphine.)
Right, but spefically because its easy for them to build lots of buildings quickly, and because corruption is so important to them, they shouldn't have access to the earlier (and cheaper) shaman. But they should have either priest or shaman due to being a myrran race.
From the lore side, dwarves are civilized with extensive religious backgrounds. Priests are much more suitable. In this case, lore and balance match. |
