Armorer's Guild "nerf", better idea

[Seravy]

So...what if we tied the higher end military buildings to fame?
Based on the idea that you actually need to gather real live combat experience to produce stronger troops.

Something like :
Armorer's Guild : 12 fame
Barracks : 15 fame
War College : 25 fame
Fantastic Stables : 20 fame

If we go this route, we probably also need to do something about the fame bonus on Just Cause and Famous, or simply have "fame gained from spells and retorts do not count towards this requirement" tackled on which is a bit artificial but makes sense - these spells have nothing to do with you actually gaining insight on how to lead troops in a battle, they have no victories behind them.
Do note people can build Colosseums to unlock the buildings if they fail to raise their fame in battles.

We can then regulate the amount of time it takes to reach these through the price of colosseum and the amount of fame needed. (and we probably need to also look at the conditions to gain fame from battles as well.)

[Arnuz]

Barracks is a bit annoying as it allows the colosseum which gives fame, I like the rest.

I wouldn't mind the bonus counting - famous isn't exactly a rush strategy, and just cause is all around good not dedicated to rush.

[Seravy]

Barracks is a bit annoying as it allows the colosseum which gives fame, I like the rest.

I wouldn't mind the bonus counting - famous isn't exactly a rush strategy, and just cause is all around good not dedicated to rush.

Good point, either the requirement should be removed from the colosseum or barracks should stay "free" from the update. Probably the latter.

[zitro1987]

That's actually not too bad of an idea. Slightly but not too artificial.

How do we explain this on the city screen? Do we explain for 'fighter's guild' what armorer's guild needs? (stable -> fantastic stable / barrack -> war college)

I think the requirements are maybe too rough and barracks needs to be removed from that list.
Armorer's Guild : 12 fame
War College : 15 fame
Fantastic Stables : 15 fame

[Kaiku]

Hmm, I'd like to stay away from these sorts of threads for now, but I do have some input. I've noticed that some AI's have abysmal fame even in midgame. They wouldn't be able to afford these things, and will possibly lose that much harder because now they'll lack advanced units too.

[Arnuz]

Good point Kaiku, even on lunatic AI fame remains low as it starts dungeoning very late.

... Which could be further reason to get AI to go dungeoneering earlier, despite strategic strength, and risk a bit to get resources, so that then we can get rid of some cheating. But the dungeoneering aficionados here won't like this...

[Seravy]

For the AI, raising the priority to build Colosseum under a certain amount of fame is doable so no need to worry about it, but good catch we definitely need to update the AI production rules for this.

How to explain is probably the hard part, I'd normally put it on the building itself but it won't even show up if not unlocked so...that's out. I was planning to list it on the "Fame" help entry, but listing it on barracks/fighter's guild is probably better. Or just adding "Allows higher tier/level troops. Fame is required to build a higher level building of this type." and listing the numbers on the Fame entry?

[Seravy]

More importantly, if we do this, we need to carefully check which races have no access to Colosseum.

Halflings are fine - they also don't have any of the buildings affected. Not sure if there was another race which can't build a Colosseum?

[zitro1987]

High Elves. They'll need the building.

I still think the fame requirements for Fantastic Stables and War College are steep, particularly for enemy AI.

[Nelphine]

That'd be a super interesting Nerf to those buildings. I have no idea if I like it or not - I completely ignore fame most of the time.

I'd personally allow 'famous' to continue working. I'd also suggest allowing just cause to work but reduce it to +5.

I LIKE that high elves can't build colloseums. I'd like to avoid giving it to them if possible - a 'keep an eye on this' situation.