RBP3 - [SPOILERS] - Team DIM (Mehmed of HRE)

[Ilios]

Had a chat with Mukha:

To summarize, Rome did 3 two pop whips, with zero hammers invested (meaning they sacrificed 6 populations for only 120 hammers). That would mean that a chariot assault is now out of the question.
Instead of attacking head on, Portugal will try to harrass Rome, and either claim Rome's Iron resource with a settler of their own or take out Rome's settler destined for the Iron site.
Portugal is a little worried and would wish Rome hates DIM as much as them.
Mukha asked when I thought the Gallic Wars would end (I'm guessing T85-90), and told us any Horse Archers left over from the war were more than welcome on the Roman front.

This liberates the two units (a warrior and the chariot DIM just finished) we were planning on using against Rome.
I'd like to move Brute the warrior to our designated city site north of DIM and use him as fog buster/barb magnet/early warning against northern attack.
The chariot can be used on the French front. Instead of 2-pop whipping Midas on T78 for our fourth and final HA, I'd like to 1-pop whip a spearman for defense/MP the turn after, so we can keep working that gold tile, and keep growing. (silver will be coming online T78 )
I reckon with all the forces assembling against France, we can easily replace a HA with a chariot and still prevail. Our economic situation doesn't allow for a really big army yet, and I'm worried people are growing peacefully (Ottomans, Carthage) and gain too much of an advantage over us.

me: morning
Willem: hey
so I just wanted to let you know about our Roman Problem
me: yes?
7:45 AM Willem: they did 3 2 pop whips for spears
me: wow
Willem: so we decided there was no point throwing chariots at that
yeah, and each of those whips was at the swapping penalty too
me: probably not
Willem: so they only got 120 hammers for their 6 population killed
me: three whips just in capital?
wowo
7:46 AM Willem: no, 1 in second city and 2 in capital I think
me: well
Willem: we're going to try to find their iron, and if they settle it, attack
me: that's what I was thinking as well
Willem: but if you could still check out their second city, see if you get visibility on it
me: in any case, it's not to our side
7:47 AM we already tried
it's not on a hill
and no hills around
Willem: damn
we're going to try to settle their iron
me: hehe
Willem: did i ever forward you an email that rome sent around to the rest of CANT?
me: yup
7:48 AM nice reading
Willem: ok
not sure why they hate us more than you
me: well, not sure
you've had contact with them for quite some time now I think no?
7:49 AM Willem: yeah
i think we met egypt, then rome
me: oh
Willem: so if you could do something to piss them off to take the heat of uss
us
that would be appreciated
me: hehe
7:50 AM France will soon be very very pissed at us
Willem: heh
me: but I won't go into details
since you prefer not to know
Willem: yeah, last I heard that was very close
7:51 AM me: I can't believe those 2 lousy turns have now taken almost a week
Willem: heh have they
wow
they did get played a lot
me: yup
Willem: I think I figured out the optimal moves the last run through
7:52 AM me: vis-a-vis Rome?
Willem: no, no, didn't someone say those turns were do-overs?
7:53 AM heh, but don't worry, we did try to play them the same
except rome hadn't actually played t72 and we had, so they saw our desired t72 moves and moved to disrupt them
because they were free to move anywhere they wanted
while we were limited to whatever we did the first time through t72
7:54 AM the reload rule needs work
7:55 AM so not really sure what our immediate plans are now, just annoy rome I guess
when do you think hostilities with france will conclude?
me: dunno
7:56 AM T85-90?
Willem: ok
me: I don't think you need to worry that much though
if you can spot that Iron
they're screwed until they can get an source from Inca
7:57 AM Willem: yeah
thankfully those spear whips are good for us in the long run
me: yeah that must've really hurt
7:58 AM Willem: considering how awful their food is
me: yup
Willem: they only just got AH on t71
me: yeah
you guys know Babylon right?
Willem: yeah
it was us who negotiated them in with mali
7:59 AM me: are they south of England?
Willem: umm yeah, sort of
me: south west maybe
Willem: south east I think
me: erm east i mean
ok
Willem: sort of north of rome over the desert
me: could you ask if they have any spare units between their lands and England
Willem: ok will do
8:00 AM me: we've got a woody II meeting up with Maya
Willem: can you give me your closest scout's exact position?
me: and I'd like to pick up Babylon on the way
I've got one north of the England Carthage borderlands now
Willem: relative to london mb or an english city
ok
8:01 AM me: i'd have to check ingame for the exact positiion
Willem: so if you head directly south you should find mali and babs at the same time
me: mali we've met
Willem: ok cool
who else haven't you met?
me: then only Byz remaining I guess
you?
8:02 AM Willem: we should meet our remaining two over next 2 turns
mali and aztecs
me: good
Willem: I have my first post in public player thread all ready to go
me: do you have IW, can't remember
Willem: yeah
me: hehe
8:03 AM i thought the IT post was used for war-declarations?
Willem: heh appears that way
8:04 AM me: not sure what public player thread is for then
so might be better to use that then
Willem: well I didn't like the fact people were using it thread for diplomatic reasons
me: yeah
8:05 AM i'll make sure those involved with France use the PP thread
Willem: if you need to negotiate turn timers that should be done by email as well, unless there's a dispute
me: yup
declaration by email
declaration ingame
8:06 AM declaration in PP thread
and if necessary
declaration by carrier pigeon...
Willem: heh
8:07 AM apparently messages left on facebook walls are now admissable in court
8:08 AM although I don't Elizabeth I has a facebook account
me: nah
8:09 AM Willem: well if you have any HAs left over, or anything else that can draw blood
you're welcome to join us for further festivities in Roman lands
once the French party winds down
8:10 AM me: we sure will
France should go down pretty quick
they even founded another city last turn
8:11 AM Willem: ahh, they are up to 4 then?
me: another 100 shields not put into units
yes
it's not going to be pretty...
Willem: yeah, not sure if they bought our line about building farms and cottages
instead of mines
me: well they still haven't switched to slavery
Willem: oh yeah
8:12 AM gg then
me: and were building a library in cap
i've got their demos
and i think they're running a skeleton defencse
like I said
it's not going to be pretty
8:13 AM Willem: heh ahh well. pretty or not we'd still like to see screenshots
me: willl do
we'll keep the popcorn ready for yours
8:14 AM Willem: heh
ok we'll keep you updated then
speak to you soon, hopefully this game can restart fairly soon
me: it's a pity Inca can't be touched till T100
yeah me too
Willem: ahh that's right
8:15 AM well we don't have a nap with them
but apparently they are gifting units to rome
me: neither do we
yes
i saw it on demo
Willem: not sure if that breaks the NAP with aztecs and ottomans
oh that went through already?
me: don't think so
Willem: we don't have incan graphs
it's just that incan military was supposed to return home
as part of NAP
8:16 AM me: two units max
well they did
and then they moved over to Rome
Willem: so 2 axes then I'm guessing?
me: most probably
they didn't have Hunting until recently as well
8:17 AM Willem: yeah
came so close to preventing that
me: oh well
Willem: yaz settled a city in the middle of nowhere
me: would have been too easy then
Willem: just to be able to trade techs the next turn
8:18 AM ok then, I'll speak to you later
gotta head
bye
me: later man

[Ilios]

France have founded their fourth city. That is actually excellent news, because that's 90 hammers for the library and 100 hammers for the settler not allocated to military. France's power rating has remained constant for the past few turns.

They're toast...

[Ilios]

I am moving Tricky towards the Carthage-England borderlands to meet up with Maya's warrior, and I'd like to keep moving him south to finally meet Babylon (remember, they're researching Currency).

We still haven't given an answer to England regarding their NAP request (till T100, with automatic renewal and a 10 turn cooldown).
While I'm sure we'll stay peaceful in the middle long term, I'd like to hammer out a settler agreement first before commiting to a long NAP. Therefore, I'd like to propose them a short NAP (say till T85-90), until we can divide our borderlands and former France to both parties' satisfaction.

[dazedroyalty]

Does this meant the game is back up?

I like what you're doing. I'm still quite annoyed with France for tipping Rome off. Did they ever give any kind of explanation for that move? Regardless, I'm not totally pissed because, even though Rome knows, we've still managed to hurt them pretty seriously with their double pop whipping that is never a productive use of population. Obviously, it may be the thing that keeps them alive and is therefore good, but it will also seriously cut them down. Let's remind Portugal to be really careful not to leave any chariots out where a Roman spear could kill them off.

That's great news that France went for another city. Not only is that less hammers invested in military but it's also more space that they will need to attempt to defend. I hope for a quick and decisive victory!

[Ilios]

Ok I've finally been able to play T74. First Horse Archer, baptised "Death", finished and moving to the French front. Chop in DIM, means another will be finished next turn.
I was going to have a chop finish a HA in Midas, but it would seem we have overestimated France's military.
After analysing France's power graph, I have come to the conclusion they have 4-5 warriors around, for 4 cities.



I have them at 39-40K Soldiers from T74 power graph. But demographics shows lowest power at 44K soldiers, So Cyneheard and I think they finished a Spear this turn.
If they finished the Spear at Lyon, their Copper city, then England will probably have to wait until our forces have arrived before moving into France's core. If not, then England can just keep moving and crush Orleans. Krill has set his sights on Paris, and hopes he can take the city with one War Chariot.

I've been talking to Cyneheard of England concerning the land division, and this is what we've come up with. I thought it would be better to take the Sheep/copper site so we can claim the northern half of France a bit easier. They want the Wine/Sheep site to Singa's south. It is only 4 tiles away, but they have promised to not put a Library there, and won't be founding it till T85-90, which gives us plenty of time to build a Library. That is, unless Confu gets founded in Singa...

You can see the the Orange dot, which is a Carthage site, and White Dot, which is England's preferred site. Part of the deal is that England provide us with Wines (to be traded for Spices probably).



And this would be our site. England plan a city to the south, sharing the food resources of their existing city. Notice we keep the gold at Orleans. There is a nice grassland sheep 2N of the gold, which will make a nice city somewhere in the future.



Anyway let me know what you think. Bear in mind we've still got a least four cities left to plant around DIM. We won't be settling former France anytime soon...

[Ilios]

I've just had a chat with Ruff and WarriorKnight from Ottomans. We're tentatively looking at what we can do once the Incan NAP runs out. I think we should be able to contribute some veterans from the French war, with most of the heavy lifting done by Aztec and Ottomans. I don't want everyone to just research peacefully. (Carthage will finish Construction in 7 turns!!)

[Ilios]

Incredible! Portugal just lost FIVE chariots against a spear and an axe. And they will need to delete their remaining chariot because Rome just moved a spear and an axe next to it. I hope England have better luck with their RNG results when they storm Lyons...

Rome lost its Iron city though, so not all bad...

[dazedroyalty]

Wow! Wow! I mean, WOW! That's horrible RNG outcomes. I'm glad Rome was hurt but that really stinks for Portugal. I'd love to see the actual combat outcomes. The spear basically had to come through completely unscathed on at least the first two of those attacks.

I'm okay with the split of France's land. I'm not thrilled, still, with the sheep site to the West. All I can say is, they'd better maintain control of that wine instaed of letting Carthage gain control.

[Ilios]

France is going down... This is from Cyneheard:

Um, wow. Just wow. 1 damaged warrior, at 0.9/2 health. Killed with 0 damage taken; our 5 chariots can hit Orleans T77, or Paris T78, or Orleans T78 without having to worry about the river crossing. Krill, let me know if you see anything when you attack.

According to HRE data, a spear almost definitely exists in French territory. Screenshot is attached. We only got 12 gold (a low roll, given the situation: expected value was about 20) from Lyons.

France still seems to have access to copper, and we're not sure if the trade screen auto-updates. So either they got the copper from someone else, or they popped another source (!). We'll know for sure next turn. I was planning on only sending two Horse Archers, which should be more than enough to take out the lone spear France has hiding somewhere, but a third might be necessary. If France's copper is effectively gone the chop near Midas is going into a library.

DIM is working on an Archer, and Singa on a Spearman, to be whipped in a couple of turns, then onto a worker.

I expect us to have the following units by T80:

* 5 Warriors
* 1-2 Spearman
* 1 Archer
* 2-3 Horse Archers
* 2 Chariots

Pretty decent, and it means we won't be an east target for quite some time. I feel safer expanding knowing we have the military to protect our new aquisitions.

[Ilios]

Thanks again for making the tile swap Dazed!

If T75 is still running tonight, I'll take some screenshots for the overview.

DIM will grow to 5 next turn.
Midas will grow to 4 the turn after.
Singa will grow to 3 in 3 turns.

We will be founding Marble city on T86. I've managed to find a way to speed up movement towards the site by building a small stretch of road the settler can move over.
We could finish the settler earlier, but as I said before, we'd just plop the city down without worker support which would just cost us money.
The upside to this is that we'll probably be able to start research on Code of Laws in about two turns. At current beaker production this will take us 15 turns, but once our cities grow into cottages, the silver mine comes online and most importantly, Currency comes in, I expect this to drop to 9-10 turns.

Singa will be at size 7 around T89, running a 9 food surplus and working 2 cottages. Micro has it 2-pop whipping a Library on T89, grow back to size 6 and start on a settler, to be finished (with chops) around T92. Everything might get delayed one turn because of Anarchy.

I plan on revolting to Hereditary Rule and Organized Religion when DIM finished its settler, which will be on T83. I was thinking of starting a Barracks with the overflow and 2-pop whipping it into a Library or a Worker.

Midas will be finishing another Horse Archer with a chop next turn, start building a spear (trained in Rome's school of Elite Pointy Stickers), 1-pop whip and put overflow in a worker. Once the worker finishes I had set on starting it a Library.