Test games played

[Seravy]

Started the mono-sorcery game. So far the focus magic nagas are so underwhelming I'm probably going to abandon producing them. I could have researched AEther Binding from all the mana I threw into these worthless units.
...well I have to admit they move fast on the overland map, but they die to enemy stacks that have less total production cost than themselves. Nothing special either, just sprites and beastmen bowmen...

I don't understand why people think these are good, aside from the fact that Sorcery has nothing else at common to compere them with. But I'm 100% sure my beastmen bowmen from the stolen enemy city will fight better and they are also more const effective.

(also, running in circles. So far happened only once. I lost like 400 gold worth of buildings and a focus magic naga. Yay, I held the city? I don't feel the amazing OPness. Also it didn't happen because I planned to do it. It happened because 2 focus magic nagas apparently can't stop 2 bears and 3 swordsmen.)

[Juffos]

Myrran units have enough resist to hold their own versus them.

[Nelphine]

Hmm. I hadn't thought about nyrran, yeah focus magic isn't so good against all races with high resist or high health.

Still I can't imagine sprites or bowmen doing much if there are 9 naga. Wait for a full stack, then start buffing, then go steamroll the fortress, then play with the rest of the AI forces. Then again, that's usually my plan no matter what units I use. If I can't kill the fortress, avoid war until you can.

[Seravy]

Beastmen don't and I was fighting those, although they have hp. But I'm more disappointed by how much damage they take from beastmen bowmen and how 6 of them wasn't able to kill a single unit in an enemy city that had only bowmen and sprites. I just don't see how a unit that cost 153 instead of the 90 of giant spiders for roughly the same poison damage but less movement speed, non-poison damage, defense, health and resistance can be considered too powerful. Sure, the nagas are ranged but a move 5 spider with web can reach and fight anything and doesn't even run out of ammo, so no advantage there either. Or compare it to ghouls. For twice the unit cost, it's 2.25 times the poison damage, but it does not create undead and requires two spells. Even sprites are better, they deal less damage but fly.

Meanwhile the second enemy showed up and I'm way behind thanks to wasting my efforts on useless nagas (and setting the difficulty high for a change) so I have to switch over to the "peaceful" tactic and avoid any further war until I managed to get an Alliance from them. We share 5 Sorcery books so it shouldn't be overly hard to get one and trade can even get me to rares faster.
...Also I have nothing to cast overland now until water elemental so I guess I'll need to produce some garrison nagas just to be doing something - but without focus magic this time. Or I could make an item...

Still I can't imagine sprites or bowmen doing much if there are 9 naga

I expected that too, but the nagas got streamrolled instead (I had only 6 and the enemy had some advantage but even then the outcome was absolutely horrible, I didn't even manage to kill one bowmen). 3 ranged can't deal damage to units behind a wall, and poison, well, sprites have a lot of resistance, while the beastmen bowmen have too much health. You'll see when I finish the game and upload the recording.

[Nelphine]

Yeah, I'd say nyrran was a bad call for that test then. My bad on that. Against barbarians, high men, orcs, gnolls, klackons, that would be quite different. Also, nature summons are strong. Against chaos or sorcery you'd do much better as well.

Although wasting a stack at only 6 doesn't help, but I get your point.

[Suriname]

FM nagas on Myrran? Well, at least you would be sure that they are OP if they still steamrolled the opposition I guess?

They cost 108, otherwise you're doing it wrong. Oh right myrran. Yeah you're doing it wrong.

[Seravy]

You do realize if I use discount retorts then I also have to include them in the other tactics to compare, so it will not change anything?

108 nagas sure, but then ghouls are only 52. Now Nagas cost more than double instead of "only" almost double. Because Conjurer isn't making Focus Magic cheaper, this will only make them look worse in comparison.

(I agree it's not optimal for Myrror but the primary goal was to test Dark Elves, not nagas anyway. I can play a Nagas game on Arcanus later.)

[teelaurila]

That's odd ... In my present white+black DE game (my first on Master) I'm murdering beastmen bowmen behind walls while attacking with (unbuffed) ghouls (poison, yay). Nagas should pretty much work the same? I suppose you are sure you weren't fighting undead units? Ghouls don't do awesome damage, but the bowmen can't seem to hurt the ghouls much because of the range malus, so the ghouls win by a rather large margin. High exp and/or adamantium on the bowmen could turn it around?

[Seravy]

No undead, they had mithril and heavenly light though, idk about exp. Also sprites had nature node aura so my nagas lived like 2 turns total.

[Nelphine]

Yeah heavenly light and nature node make a huge difference. Those sprites are 75% more durable than normal.

Well, more like 50% due to city walls.