February 16th, 2018, 07:35
Posts: 1,418
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Joined: Nov 2014
(February 15th, 2018, 16:46)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: Fenn, you're exactly right. And you're just the guy for the job. Just like Kris Kobach was chosen to lead the (now defunct) Voter Fraud Commission, you just feel free to keep tabs on that operation and then report your findings over here. Their thread views are inflated. We're going to win the view war because they've got approximately 3 million bots trolling that page but we're going to get to the bottom of this. Sad!
Genius idea. I probably don't even need to actually read the thread, just stare at the pagecount and dream up scandals - that's how blatant the view bots are!!!
February 16th, 2018, 12:47
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
Here's a list for my civ's theme (this whole Russia Thing):
February 16th, 2018, 14:06
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
(February 13th, 2018, 15:20)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: Old Harry/Fintourist - (Cold War Kids) ft. Augustus (Imp/Ind) of Persia
What if in the end
You want so bad to forgive
But you cannot forget
I personally enjoy these guys a lot. Their threads are fun. They are kind, entertaining, and highly competent at civ. They are methodical, clinical, lethal. They are reliable at playing turns and, OH in particular, is always on the spot to help out with resetting games when someone nukes the pitboss server. He's willing to offer helpful technical advice. There is absolutely nothing to dislike about any of them.
And that is entirely the problem. Someone has to end this menace of nicety and competence and general good cheer. SAD!
Here's the problem: They're just better at civ than you are and they can crowdsource for any deficiency that they lack. They have the advantage of a good will ambassador and the skill of a ruthless dictator. Old Harry is the macro guy, plotting the course and understanding what comes next. Fintourist is the micro guy, breaking spreadsheets to the sixth decimal place. They are a very tough team to compete against.
Having said that, in-game they still make a good neighbor, similarly to how I view TBS. They are rational and not prone to tilt. This means you can, with some degree of reliability, predict their response to your actions. Their response will be proportional to the threat and will always serve their greater interest. They are highly unlikely to throw away a promising game position in a fit of pique. So rational relations are possible, to the mutual benefit of both them and you. The most important thing to do with them is make yourself an unappealing target. If they can't benefit from the fight they won't engage it. But if you let your guard down, if you leave an opening, then you're going to get flayed alive. See Pindicator in PB18 (the island invasion massacre). If you want to see a naval invasion in action, read their thread from that game when they just peeled the skin of poor Pindicator, slice after meaty slice.
If you want a taste of their ruthlessness, see their fight against Dtay in the same game. This was not a war of acquisition, it was a fishing expedition to reel in a would-be runaway. They did reel Dtay in (with some help). And their instincts regarding me were good too. We left a narrow strip of water between us and only modestly protected it, and we both profited from this arrangement tremendously. I always made sure that they knew there were better opportunities elsewhere.
My takeaway here is to plan for good relations, make good relations possible by having rational interactions and back these situations with a plausible threat of mutual destruction if we end up in a tussle. So bring a military, don't get behind (not an obviously easy thing to do against them), and politely ignore each other until all the smaller fish have been consumed. OH's mantra is "Neighbors are food". Don't be the guppy. Be a shark. It's all about eat or be eaten and they are going to eat well in this game.
The video above with The Cold War Kids is my interpretation of the dynamics between OH vs. Fintourist. They're so nice that the just HAVE to be evil. Right? And also the whole Russian Bot Farm thing they have going on in their thread. (Breaking news today: Bot Farm Indicted. I hope their thread doesn't lose anyone.  ) They have nothing to forgive. I wasn't good enough to beat them (or delay TBS) in the end during PB18. I wasn't decisive enough at several points of the game. Maybe this time will be different (probably not).
Civ/Leader
Persia is fine. I like the Madrassa. It gives you flexibility in getting a Great Prophet so they won't have to mess around building early wonders and you usually build a good number of libraries anyway. Their focus will (rightly) be on growth. For them, that's going to be rapid horizontal expansion. The Camel Archer is very meh. I'm sure our mapmakers didn't screw anyone out of iron, but if they did the Bot Farm will still be fine in the medieval era.
Augustus is a good leader for a big game. Land is king and they're going to get their share and then some before via IMP they have to fight. So that means when they do start their wars of acquisition they are going to have a build queue advantage. All else being equal, more units generally win, but when it comes to war against these guys all things are probably not equal. They'll fight when they have an advantage. When they have the advantage they will press the advantage until it hurts, hurts some more, hurts badly, and keep pressing all the way until the pain stops because you're gone. And with more land tiles add cheap forges. In this mod, workshops are strong, so they'll prioritize building more of them sooner to snowball this production advantage. Mid-game they'll have flexibility for lots of wealth builds, a good tech rate, and eventually their choice of wonders. I really do love cheap forges. This is going to be a problem for someone. Another (slight) boost to IND is that there are only 3 Industrious leaders in the field, slightly below what I would have expected. But early forges are by far more interesting for them.
Civ: :  (more blue; they don't need iron to make you pay the iron price)
Leader:  (land is king, neighbors are food, hammers are cheap)
Player:  (they're going to kill you but they'll be very nice about it)
Chance of winning: 
Top 10 finish: Automatic unless the server dies before T25.
Don't Say I Didn't Warn You:  (Team Mids? I've seen stone on the map already and they can get a fast city out to stone)
Conclusion: Quarternary Consumer (Great Kind Whales, Nasty, Teethy Shark)
Up next: Very good players but coming back into the realm of mere mortals.
February 16th, 2018, 17:51
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
T4
Not much new this turn. More barren land. I'll keep scouting toward a neighbor to get some espionage points going. Then maybe I'll turn closer to home for dotmapping.
I'm away from home for the next 9 days. I'll have a laptop and I shouldn't have any issues installing civ. If I do have an issue I'll post some instructions here. Mostly, though, you'll get to YOLO it. Early turns don't need too much explaining. First worker actions will be to improve the wheat SW of cap, then move toward the wheat N of cap (1t into a farm/cancel along the way). This would get us close to T25. No way the game is beyond that by the time I get back. Tech path will be Agriculture, BW, TW, Pottery (probably).
February 18th, 2018, 00:21
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
February 18th, 2018, 00:25
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
One other thing: I'll always have a thread count win:
I'm not sure why we even need to finish the game at this point. 
February 19th, 2018, 10:53
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
T7
It looks like 2metra, Napoleon (CHM/ORG) of Aztecs, is my southern neighbor. I could have made contact as soon as last turn but did not check the culture overlay. I'll circle toward the east and make contact, then continue on my mission scouting deep.
If this turns out to be 2mn then it isn't the best neighbor I could have drawn, but it isn't the worst either. He strikes me as a believer in Realpolitk, which is good, but also as highly opportunistic, placing higher regard for immediate tactical advantage at the expense of longterm, strategic advantage. This will, in short, probably lead to the necessity of more units than if I had a more trusting neighbor. He is also somewhat prone to argument from what I've seen and highly skeptical that he is ever wrong in a dispute, so there is the potential for poor relations if I settle aggressively or if I react to his aggression. This is always the case, but with 2mn it seems the possibility for a ruinous conflict is higher than average. I understand him to be a skilled warmonger in a tactical sense but I do not think he is as likely to war profitably as others.
More later if I get time. Also, lurkers, don't despair, I'll churn out your lurker scum list when I get a chance. I haven't forgotten. 
February 20th, 2018, 06:59
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Joined: Jul 2011
Rusten, not 2metraninja, is my southern neighbor. I know nothing about who this is. Does anyone have any info? I think I remember from the startup thread that he is new here so this is going to be a wildcard situation where I won't know what to expect. This is good news though. Newcomers tend to struggle a bit so I hope to take advantage at some point.
February 20th, 2018, 09:45
Posts: 7,916
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Joined: Jan 2012
I think he was someone people recognized from CFC back in the day? I have never heard of him so don't have any preconceptions.
February 20th, 2018, 13:02
Posts: 5,131
Threads: 113
Joined: Nov 2007
"New here" is an interesting question. He hasn't posted much, and this is his first time playing here at Realms Beyond, but he's been around forever. He "dedlurked" CML during PB37, and looked like he might play an active role there, but then CML stopped reporting in the very early turns, and that echoed the first game he dedlurked here, also with no real opportunity to contribute, also because the turnplayer stopped reporting shortly after he showed up: PB1!
Oh, and on that thread war lead you had at the beginning? Not that I'm presenting this as a challenge or anything [ahem] ... but in PB37, Team Khatunate (JR4, shallow_thought, and I) had (and still retain) more posts and thread views than even the sign-up thread and tech thread ... combined!
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