RBP3 [Spoilers] Capac of Mali

[Swiss Pauli]

Switched Sirian to a Mint, and we're at 90% research to minimize overflow because we don't know which tech we'll be working on next.

Trade dispute with India is over Aesthetics: they may deny it to some of PAT, so PAT may be forced to research it. PAT's leverage over India has been weakened by Maya handing over MC without consulting the rest of us Maya was including in an email about the trade dispute so I am disappointed witht them to say the least.

[Swiss Pauli]

Incoming email from India; I'm sure you recognise the tone

Hey Emperor Capac,

Just trying to catch up on diplomacy and realized that the "something substantive" that we promised was err... lost in the mail? Perhaps we could pass it off as barbarians sacking the mail wagons across the vast expanses of desert between us?

In any case, it seems that the diplo in PB3 is flying fast and furious! As you are no doubt aware, a new diplo group is being formed. The word on the street is that you (Mali) are one of the "cool" kids, while we (India) are one of the "losers". Our sources are unclear as to whether or not you have confirmed membership or not.

I guess at this point, there's not a whole lot of point in exchanging pleasantries or talking about the weather, while ignoring the 500 pound elephant in the room

So we accept if you would like to be a part of this or any group that doesn't include us. After all, we haven't been that close to you since we barely met a few turns ago! And while it is a bit disappointing that so much of the alliance structure in the game depends on who happens to be randomly assigned as your immediate neighbors (perhaps future games should allow contact even before in-game contact?), that is the way the game is, and what can you do?

But we would like to know whether you plan on honoring your CAN agreements of distributing the Calendar tech when you research it?

PARTY ON!

DJ Civ

[Swiss Pauli]

Email from England:

So, looking over lightbulb preferences, and discovered that Guilds is bulbable with a Great Merchant if we have Paper + the usual pre-reqs for Guilds (Feud and Machinery). Do you think that you'd be able and willing to do so for your first Great Person? I don't think the GM would finish Guilds, and might have to be gifted to someone else to bulb (someone with high pop, probably). We've got our own plans for our first Great Person, and Maya/Carthage/Babylon will all be teching no matter what; you and I will probably be part-time techers (depending on circumstances), so a market has some value.

--
Cyneheard, Haphazard1, Antisocialmunky
Lords of Avalon
Suryavarman II of England

Not really sure that we want to be gifting away our first GP, so I'll reply that we also have plans for our first GP, but we could consider this plan for our 2nd one.

[Swiss Pauli]

Chat with Krill (worth reading):

18:46 me: evening
Krill: Evening mate
slimy slimy regoarrarr is at it again.
me: clearly
18:47 but i did balls that up:failed to coordinate and pissed off Maniac
Krill: we'll see what happens
18:49 me: and that's a sweet deal India is claiming: free cities & free tech
all for delayed cheap granaries
Krill: yeah, that's what pisses me off about him
not that he does it, but that he acts like the pope
18:50 and we all know what position he is in atm
6 minutes
18:56 me: yeah, his tone of pious superiority gets right on my tits
18:57 probably because I have to deal with similar bollox at work and can't be arsed with it here
Krill: Reckon we should do a public thread campaign, protraying regoarrarr as the Emporer, and sunrise as Vader?
18:58 me: lol
18:59 not sure either of would fit the bill as Han Solo
19:00 Krill: Kyan?
me: and I'm sure none of us whats to be whiney Luke
Krill: yeah
screw that...
I'll take Calrissian though!
19:01 me: and I'll be Leia (sp) but only at weekends
Krill: lol
I'm thinking avartar war
19:02 me: if we can keep it fun, why not?
Krill: I think the forum will need a little light hearted jesting
19:03 me: gotta watch for it getting out of hand
19:04 dreylin seems a decent guy but mh's joshing got right under his skin for a while
Krill: true
19:07 well, probably just made myseld look like a bastard
btw, you seen the spreadsheet I made?
19:08 me: I did have a quick look
has another look
Krill: basically, PAT is owed 1800 beakers by none PAT
19:09 I wonder if it is worth publicly stating that the PAT is just a faction that doesn;t want to be gifting tech away
wonder what that would do, diplomatically
19:10 me: not quite sure what you mean
Krill: IE
can isn't splitting, but won;t forward techs without payment
19:11 turn it into some sort of tech consortium
(not serious thought, just ideal speculation of what would happen)
19:12 me: I think it might hit trouble because of certain gateway techs
19:13 Krill: true
19:14 me: so there will always need to be some fronting of those
Krill: payment comes in many differnt types
and some forwarding is OK
the amount we've been doing to India is just wrong though
19:15 which pprecipitated the entire dplomatic scene
me: well Mali can't really complain about unfair fronting
but I undertand where you are coming from
19:16 *understand
19:18 back to practical matter: does Mali owe Calendar to everyone in CAN?
17 minutes
19:35 Krill: no
19:36 just owe gold to those in the list
babylon
England
Carthage
Maya
19:37 but because you are giving Calendar to them
that gold debt won;t have to be paid
Ultimately, the argument comes down to this: India claims you must give them everything they want, and that you have to accept Aesthetics
19:38 Which isn't something I'm entirely sure was what we agreed to
when CAn got started
19:39 me: my line with india will be that we won't hand over Calendar until the dispute over Construction is cleared up
i.e. they hand it over for maths
Krill: Meh
19:40 babylon won;t hand curency over
so we need someone to research Aesthetics
so on the whole, no real point
and everyone else needs Calendar anyway
although you'd end up getting another 36 gold out of India, if they'd pay
19:41 (my suggestion, if you decide you want to trade away Calendar, is to wait until Curency is finished)
19:43 but babylon needs to get aesthetics researched for them...
19:44 me: so is babylon stiffing india, or was it never agreed?
Krill: never agreed in the first place
supposedly Darrell really pissed off Kyan
19:45 this is one of the reasons didn;t want MC getting traded
We need to research Aesthetics anyway
19:47 me: so at this stage Babylon & Carthage definitely not getting Aesth
how about you?
19:48 Krill: We'll see
I don;t care
19:49 basically, if they don't, I have moral high ground
and get proved right about them
if they do, well, I'lll accept
And might be able to tech Drama
19:54 me: I'd prefer not to stiff India on the trade, but I'll have to mull things over
Krill: Question: when did you agree to the trade?
19:55 me: didn't actually agree anything with anyone
19:56 just ' you research Calendar for CAN'
Krill: Yeah, that was me, right?
saying that.
Pretty sure I didn;t say that to you, but it went via proxies
19:59 me: indeed
england and babylon

[Swiss Pauli]

Reply from England about the upcoming plans:

Techer vs. Funder:

It primarily depends on whether or not everyone's getting Aesthetics. If the answer to that is no, then here's what I think we want to do:
1) Carthage on CS
2) Maya on Machinery (These two are already happening)
3) Babylon most likely will do Feudalism. (Babylon, does that make sense? Feudalism's expensive, and useful, but not urgent, so waiting for T92 to roll around before starting it's fine. But you'll be able to finish it fairly efficiently).
4) England techs Literature (Assuming India doesn't get petulant, in which case we start demanding gold from them. Lots of gold.), while you tech Aesthetics. Literature's cheap, and especially with Egypt's pile of gold, we should be able to burn through all of those techs at 100%.

This will be re-evaluated on T90; give us 2t to sort things out before Currency starts flying around.

Timeline for bulbing Guilds: It helps us if it's something like T120. If a GP can't come in time, then we'd might as well slow-tech it. If Feudalism and Machinery are done by T105-110, then we can either pick up Paper to be able to bulb Guilds, or just go straight for Guilds; at 125bpt, Guilds will take 12t to research (1500 base beakers * 1.2 multiplier = 1800 cost).

India & Babylon couldn't find an agreement for trading Currency for Aesthetics, so it looks like we'll have to stiff India on the Calendar-Aesthetics trade, unless something surprising happens over the next few turns.

[Swiss Pauli]

Proposed reply to India:

Dear DJs,

With so many civs (still!) in the game, it's not surprising that one cannot be in constant touch with all parties, try though one might.

So let us come without delay to the elephant in the room.

Unfortunately, it seems that no deal has been found for India to trade Aesthetics to either Carthage or Babylon. As a result, Mali will be stepping into the breach and researching Aesthetics to trade to our dear friends.

As such Mali will not be trading Calendar for Aesthetics with India.

Kind Regards

Emperor Capac

What do you guys think?

[dsplaisted]

Looks good to me.

[Broker33]

What I am posting here. Yeah message looks fine. Although I am a bit out of the loop but trying to catch up

[dsplaisted]

I played a bit of T87. Finished up two farms. Dropped research down to 80%, saving us 6 gold and we should still finish up Calendar this turn, with 6 beakers to spare.

I recommend waiting for the barb near Blake to move out of the forest before attacking it. We have a Skirmisher finishing this turn, or Satisfaction could probably also take it out if he moves onto Paint it Brown this turn.

Next turn we switch to a Settler in Sirian and can whip the Library in Sticky Fingers. Sticky fingers is currently without any military protection, by the way.

[Swiss Pauli]

Finished T87: moved L'Wren to cottage the river grass shared by Uberfish & Sticky Fingers (she can move E next turn to help Carla complete the FP cottage). Moved the new chariot (Poison Ivy) to fogbust at Jungle Gems (T88 skirmisher will take out barb warrior), and moved Ronnie NW to locate our Iron (he should move NE next turn).

Checked the log, and England completed Great Wall and Byzantium piled in on France (now 4 v 1).

Carthage has yet to formally reject India's claim to Construction for Aesthetics (India is claiming they received Maths from Carthage for attacking Sumeria), so I won't send the email to India until I receive word from Carthage.