Heroes and abilities

[Nelphine]

I would want the Magician to cast Flame Strike at level 4. I'd be ok with Necromancer to cast Animate Dead at level 5 (but I'd be happy with a +5 skill item allowing him to cast it at level 4.) I wouldn't want him casting it earlier than that - it's a very rare spell, and an extremely good one! And he's already phenomenal with super soul linker.

In general, I think we should make a lot of heroes able to get a key spell at a given expected, but if they had a +5 or +10 skill item, they would be able to cast that spell one level lower.

If we can make +5 skill and +10 skill both relevant for casting certain spells a level earlier, than caster heroes could recycle items by giving them to lower level heroes, making them relevant.

Ideally we'd also make +20 allow for casting an item 2 levels earlier.

Then we can make misc items (and probably armor) max at +10, weapons max at +20 skill. Change so that +15 is enchant item level (maybe 130 per 5 skill, but could be as low as 105) but +20 (which in key places allows for casting a spell 2 levels earlier) is create artifact.

[Seravy]

Except with the hero hiring chance change, you wouldn't really have anyone to give the old item to. Also, this system is EXTREMELY AI unfriendly. More importantly, the temporal effect of getting the skill 1 level earlier would NOT be worth the cost of creating the item especially if it's an item with multiple powers, which it will be. I mean sometimes, maybe, on some heroes, but 90% of them it won't be. (Magician is specifically designed to need an item on level 4 for Flame Strike, but that spell is powerful enough to be worth that restriction. Other hero spells either aren't, or the hero itself is champion tier so late enough to want the spells immediately anyway)
My preference on items is up to +40 on weapon in increments of 40, and nothing on other items. Or leaving the system unchanged entirely. To begin with, you can easily have any spell as Spell Charge and unlike the +10 MP item, that item would not get obsolete (assuming the spell in it is useful).

That said, +5 and/or +10 items inevitably allow casting any spell a level earlier as a level is usually worth between 5 and 10 MP. So there is no need to design for that, it's automatically part of the system.

It's important to remember we reduced the price on Caster items because we felt it wasn't worth that much. So increasing it, or reducing the amount would be the wrong direction. Once in a blue moon they'd be relevant but in 99% of the time, people would just say "crap why did I get that on my random item again, I'm melting down this garbage".

If we do limit casting to weapons, Staves and Wands would need the full +40, Swords probably 30, other weapons 10 max. Armor and Accessory would get nothing, unless you find a predefined item that is intentionally designed to break this rule. (we'd need to redesign a lot of items btw, Caster is frequent on them.)
Losing Caster would be a large blow to Armor type items, which have very minimal allowed stats and Caster was one of the three.

[Nelphine]

As I said, I argued against the casting skill change back then as well.

I'm also fully aware I might get overruled on heroes in general. I still refuse to use them because I still consider them overpowered as is. So if you overrule me this won't change my current playstyle.

I'd prefer to keep the 0-20 system. I don't think we should remove skills entirely, and at most we should not reduce misc more than 10, and probably shouldn't do more than that on armor either.

So, even if I disagree with your reasons why, I'd rather you not change things than do crazy things like increasing the max on weapons.

[Seravy]

I'm not overly interested in changing items either but if we don't then there is no point adjusting hero MP. It simply doesn't matter, we'll almost always have a found caster 20 item or three or can make our own if we really want to. I generally prefer melee heroes anyway... certainly MP can be powerful but only sometimes. Having high attack and defense stats always works...

As we agreed, Caster is a binary ability. Nerfing it halfway is meaningless, you either can easily reach the MP to cast big spells (through items or otherwise doesn't even matter), or not.
I'm saving this table, and postpone the changes until we get more feedback on hero MP in general.

So for now, I'd like to ask, does ANYONE care to use or create items with spell Skill +5 or 10? Like, ever? would you do it if those items were more expensive?
If most people think like me then we have zero use for those to even exist. If not, then your solution might even work. I'm pretty sure spell skill in items isn't good as is.

[Nelphine]

If it matters, I use them all the time.

[Seravy]

Use as in, create items with those in them intentionally, or use as in, you find a random item and have an empty slot so you equip it?

[Nelphine]

They have higher priority. So yes I'll replace better items with a +5 skill item, and the only items I ever create have +skills (always +20).

But I have bizarre hero strategies which is why I'm not sure if it matters.

[Settemio]

I am happy to equip a +5 or +10 if I find one, but will never create one.

[Bahgtru]

If we do limit casting to weapons, Staves and Wands would need the full +40, Swords probably 30, other weapons 10 max. Armor and Accessory would get nothing, unless you find a predefined item that is intentionally designed to break this rule. (we'd need to redesign a lot of items btw, Caster is frequent on them.)
Losing Caster would be a large blow to Armor type items, which have very minimal allowed stats and Caster was one of the three.

Maces are the typical cleric weapon, I'd keep some mana capacity on them, more than swords even as these are quite good already with the defence bonus.

Armour: currently shields are quite good thanks to the ranged defence, plates for the added defence, but chain-mails are sub-par. I would consider keeping the mana on chains for balance and because as light armour it suits warrior-mage types.

In some rare cases I would craft a +5mana item, in particular if I get the witch but don't have heroism or some casting undead for black prayer. In general crafting is not worth it though, buffs are higher priority.

[teelaurila]

Agree emphatically with Baghtru on the armor/shields: caster only in chain. Caster for plate/shield also breaks the fantasy cliche.

Perhaps accesory/chain/swords could do with a lesser caster (up 10?) whereas staves and wands get full (up to 20?). I would be hesitant to lose the caster from accesories altogether, given that's what the mages wear. Right now the caster is either 20 or nothing - if the max was 10 you might think harder whether to use another ability instead (like say a spell charge)