[SPOILERS] Charriu and Zalson are fighting the honorable post count war!

[Charriu]

T105:

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Oh boy, OT4E also just joined RFS and RFS lost 2 cities to Shallow this turn, but one was autorazed. Now he has only 2 cities: His capitol and his newly founded city, which will fall to Coeurva pretty soon. The only thing I'm wondering is why I don't see any units from OT4E. Unfortunately I'm still in a peace treaty with RFS for 5 turns. I really had hoped that he's holding out longer, but what could he have done when he is attacked by all four of his neighbors. Still his capitol should have enough troops in it so that it will be a bloody battle for anybody taking it. I think Magic will drop out of this war as the capitol would way to far away for him, so it's either Shallow or OT4E taking this.

Wing Raptor popped it's border this turn.



Commodore, you sneaky one. So there might still be some use for Astronomy. If I'm correct I could reach this island with either another border pop from Wing Raptor or the 3rd border pop from Liquid Flame. But I think I still need Astronomy for the trade connection, correct?
This also is a great point to make a seperate post about the map and my opinions about it.

In other small news Shallow connected his stone this turn, just so you know and he still has no currency dispite his large empire.

Graphs



Currency where art thou.





I actually have more food, but a lot of cities are in stagnation because I'm building Research in them and wait for unhappiness from whips to pass. No point in whipping while I'm in research.



Being high in power should safe me from an attack from Shallow I think. It's far more likely that he tries to conquer the gems city from Superdeath next.

[Charriu]

I think what you would want to do 2t before you finish Mono, 2x whip all other cities that aren't the capital to have a size lower than Forza.

That should almost ensure that Forza gets the holy city.

The problem with this plan is that I need some of those cities to build Research to even get to Monotheism in T109. I fear that if I wait to long somebody else will get Judaism and I think it's more important to get it in general then to get it in Forza.

[Charriu]

The Map

So this post will mainly be feedback for Commodore as a mapmaker, but might also be interesting for others. This is not a complaint about the map. On the contrary I'm very satisfied how the map turned out.



So you might remember this crude image of how I suspected the map to be like. I'm now 99.99% that this is more or less correct. Obviously I can only speak about my part of the map, but I suspect that you created the map more or less equal for any player, so most of the things in my territory apply to the other players too.

First some additional context screenshots:







Things I liked:

• This map feels a lot more natural like other PB maps in the past. It's not as abandoned in resources and looks really more like a standard civ 4 map, which is good in my book. I think with an abandonce of resource it would be harder for us greenies to make the right decisions.
  
• The player territories are clearly marked but still feel natural. What I mean with this is that there is a bigger desert between me and RFS, with only a tiny coast line connecting us. A similar desert seems to be near Shallow. More deserts and jungles seperate my territory to the north.
  
• Mountains form chokepoints with those barriers. Best seen in my border with RFS and in the north between Superdeath and Coeurva.
  
• More food resources along the coast, less food inland. This more or less divided the players in two groups south and north. Waging war against anybody in your group is much more likely than against somebody on the other side, while still keeping borders with one of each other.
  
• Strategic positioning of the mining happiness resources. Those are great and encourage early tension.
  
• That tiny island directly south of the capitol for better trade routes.
  
• That newly found island with the silver.
  
• No player has stone and marble from the beginning.
  
• Enough lakes and oasis inland to make farms.
  
• 2 easy calendar luxuries in reach.
  
• Without rivers you actively have to work for trade connections between north and south.
  
• Enough crab resources for those infamous crab for crab deals.
  
• The theme of 3s: If three players are in a conflict with each other the dynamic is much more interesting. There are always 3 players on one side of the continent and 3 bordering one mining happiness.
  

Things I did not like:

• Less resource trade options between players from the beginning. It would have been nice to have one extra luxury, which I already got, around my territory, like another sugar. That way it could encourage more meaningful resource trades between players.
  
• Only one river at the start. It would have been nice to have a bit more rivers inland or make those existing rivers a bit longer.
  

[Charriu]

I started on an updated dotmap. But before I present it to you, let me first talk about the current politcal situation of each other player. I leave out RFS, because he's more or less out of the game as of now, but his departure has a mayor impact on the game.

Magic:

Let's start with the easiest player to assess, because I basically know nothing about his situation on the map. Here are some know facts:

• His neighbors from west to east counterclockwise are: Superdeath, Shallow, RFS and OT4E
  
• Managed early war of no gains with Superdeath fairly well
  
• Conflict with Shallow around their silver spot
  
• Took a city from RFS and possibly has now a longer border with Shallow
  
• Nothing known about his encouters with OT4E
  
• My natural ally
  

I think that Magic will like look for a conflict with Shallow next for the silver. It's also likely that he comes back to Superdeath.

Superdeath:

Got himself a nice position and getting the Great Lighthouse certainly helps. He seems to fear Coeurva/OT4E a lot, which is why he destroyed all barb cities between them and did not settle that region as of now. Similar to Magic he is in a conflict with Shallow, but this time for gems. Our borders are fairly peaceful and there is still a lot of jungle between as which is a good sign. He most likely will fight with Shallow next, but could also come back to Magic, which would be a mistake and only strengthens Shallow.

Shallow:

He is the leading player right now, but also has two mayor conflicts brewing on his borders. Taking out the biggest share from RFS will certainly help him. So far my relations with him are very peaceful and seem to remain that way. I may have angered him a bit with the placement of Iron Claw, but it is not a city that absolutely threatens him and does not take any important resources from him except the plain cow and who wants that. A lot depends on how the conflict with RFS finishs. He together with OT4E is likely to take the capitol from RFS. The question is will he keep it or raze it. I think one of the following two scenarios will happen in the future:

• Shallow attacks Superdeath to secure the gems. Right now he has a bigger military then Superdeath and weakening one player is certainly in his interest before the second scenario happens. Attacking Superdeath would be the best case scenario for us, but he could also very likely attack Magic, but I think the silver is not that hotly contested then the gems is.
  
• Superdeath ang Magic attack Shallow in a joined war. Both players are in need of the silver/gems owned by Shallow and together they could seriously damage Shallow enough.
  

OT4E:

Last and most dangerous for us is OT4E. Why is that? Well first his neighbors are Magic, RFS, Me and Superdeath. RFS is basicaly out and Superdeath does not even want to settle near OT4E. This leaves only Me and Magic for any more conflict and because of our past encounters I'm the likeliest target. I was lucky that OT4E's axeman attack on Liquid Flame was prevented a few turns ago, but after RFS is gone all the gates are open for him. There is a really tiny chance that he might fight with OT4E for the capitol from RFS, but it is unlikely to grow into a mayor conflict. The only way to prevent an attack by OT4E is to remain strong in power. Only then he may look for a different target. The good thing is that since I got graphs on Magic I started putting all my espionage into OT4E and I'm not far away from seeing what he is researching.

[Charriu]

So with my other player analysis in mind here is my new dotmap:



So first things first I looked back at earlier screenshots of RFS' trading screen and with the way our capitol regions are similar I concluded that there may be a sheep under the fog 1NE of RFS capitol.

Purple south of RFS: This is a more or less a mirrored version of my Magissa, so same things as there apply. The two main questions settling this are: Is it worth settling this at all for better trade options? And should I settle this even if Shallow or OT4E take RFS capitol?
Yellow: I've checked and RFS original city 1N of here is actually a little bit better for a commerce city. But this city get's a defense bonus from beeing on a hill which might be more important. The biggest issue with this is that it can only be settled if RFS' capitol is razed. I've been actually thinking about razing RFS capitol by myself if I get the option. I still have the galley trapped S of RFS containing a swordsman and an axeman, so I might be able to go in for the snipe. To achieve this I would need settlers asap to come in after the raze.
Green: Similar like Yellow this city can only be settled if RFS capitol is razed. It's on a rather safe position shielded by Yellow and would also make for a nice commerce city. Other then that most things said in Yellow also apply here.
RFS Capitol: It's very unlikely that I take it and I would only keep it if I have enough forces to defend Liquid Flame and this. Keeping it will mean settling Yellow 1N.
Orange south of Superdeath: In my last dotmap I had this city 1SW of here, but I think this is a better spot although being more aggressive. It will serve as another defense against Superdeath and/or Shallow, but will need mayor support by workers. The important thing here is the timing of it's founding. I have two scenarios:

1. Found it with the current situation: In this case I will need enough troops to defend it and pop it's borders soon so that I acquire the full first ring back from Superdeath. The good thing is that if Superdeath tries to conquer this city, he puts his gems city in danger, because of an attack by Shallow.
   
2. Found it when Shallow attacks Superdeath / takes that gems city from Superdeath: This way I would still need enough troops to defend it, but I would also get my first ring fairly safely.
   

On the whole this city could tarnish my relations with either Superdeath and/or Shallow. But just like with Iron Claw, both don't loose anything if I settle here, so they might be angry about it, but don't consider it a threat.
Blue: This is the proposed filler spot from Zalson. There is plenty of time to settle this at a later point in time.
Cyan: These are cities depending on a war against OT4E and are a best case scenario of the war: In this best case scenario I would take and keep Schilda and raze the city W and N of Schilda to settle those new cyan spots. The former Lybian spot north of Galura is also tempting, but it would need a fast border pop to acquire the important resources. Superdeath also has a impi stationed there for a while now, so he may start settling there sooner or later.

Once again here is the raw map for anybody to play around with:

[JR4]

If I'm correct I could reach this island with either another border pop from Wing Raptor or the 3rd border pop from Liquid Flame. But I think I still need Astronomy for the trade connection, correct?

Actually, no. You will only get cultural control of ocean tiles that can be reached via second ring borders of a theoretical city site on a continent.

[Charriu]

If I'm correct I could reach this island with either another border pop from Wing Raptor or the 3rd border pop from Liquid Flame. But I think I still need Astronomy for the trade connection, correct?

Actually, no. You will only get cultural control of ocean tiles that can be reached via second ring borders of  a theoretical city site on a continent.

Oh, yeah. I totally forgot. But even if I was able to get there I might still have needed Astronomy for the trade connection across oceans.

[Charriu]

T106:

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A quick question before I start the actual report. Which building is the one behind the monument and the granary? Is that a roman forum?



Shallow already teased it in the IT thread. Turn splits really do begin to be interesting. Could this really be a mayor conflict between Shallow and OT4E. I highly doubt that.

OT4E also moved his mighty army into RFS territory and will likely destroy RFS city this turn. I must admit a successful city capture with just a warrior is just awesome.  

I noticed that I could only run 90% science this turn, because of less gold, but I could actually finish currency even with 0% science and safe some gold that way. So far nobody has researched Monotheism.

[Charriu]

Looking at civstats OT4E took a city from Shallow, which was likely one of the former RFS cities. Oh boy the really do engage in a bigger fight. Well that certainly helps the midfield to get up to them. I'm really curious how that fight went in terms of loses.

[Charriu]

T107:

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It's a mad mad world.



With currency I got 16 additional gold per turn to work with, great. I've looked where I've got the most trade from:

• Magic: 3
  
• Superdeath: 3
  
• Me: 14
  
• Shallow: 21
  

Looks like Shallow and I will stay allied for a bit longer.  



Mh so far I don't see any big losses in the OT4E/Shallow conflict.



OT4E mighty warrior indeed razed RFS' city. I used that new room to pillage a cottage with Cha Carlos (9 gold). That way I'm able to run 100% science this turn.



I send my free galley and 2 chariots east to start exploring Superdeath's and Shallow's territories. Seeing that the border with Shallow is rather peaceful and he is in other conflicts I started a granary instead of walls in Iron Claw after the barracks. I think I will have the time to finish the walls after the granary.



Oh boy Spiderman is really lightly defended. I've looked at the city and Superdeath build a ikhanda and a library there to secure himself the gems. Now that he has Iron Working he can finally start chopping all those jungles. That's also a good sign that Superdeath holds the gems as it could spark a future attack by Shallow. I really do want to capture Spiderman in the future, but I think I first let Superdeath do the hard work of chopping all those jungles. Unfortunately settling the orange dot is way hard as long as Superdeath holds Spiderman with it's +3 culture.

Back at home everything is still at research for Polytheism. Still nobody discovered Monotheism, but I made a slight miscalculation when I added Research building to my spreadsheet. I still can finish Monotheism next turn, but then I'm not able to whip my cities so that Forza has a higher chance of becoming Holy city. So I delay Monotheism just for 1 turn (Finished in T110).