DEATH Realm

[Nelphine]

As per our many discussions in the past, the ai heavily relies on summons. Summons are the driving force behind them being a threat. And there is no likelihood that an AI will get multiple very rares, so every very rare summon must standalone - we've had various balancing discussions on that exact point.

So no, death knights can't be vulnerable to great unsummoning, even if it might be fine for the human (although I still disagree there).

[zitro1987]

I find 'reaper slash' to be a waste of an uncommon slot. It is a generic direct damage spell in a realm that later obtains better offensive spells with more flair. Frankly, I find it boring, even if it roughly as useful as lightning bolt, due to it having no damage conditional modifiers.

It has been mentioned that death could use a counter against buff spells, especially given that life has a cheap and extremely useful 'bless'. I would greatly prefer 'reaper slash' to be increasingly more damaging based on enemy's # of unit enchantments. The current damage formula could be associated with 1 buff, with less damage otherwise, but greater damage with 2 or more buffs.

Another alternative way of re-inventing reaper slash is to have a 'create undead' effect if it kills a unit with buffs in it, so an opponent with dangerous buffed units could risk having units used against them.

Another alternative (if more boring) is to weaken damage of reaper slash somewhat, but have it carry a strength 30 to 40 dispel magic effect, becoming a unique dual usage spell reminiscent of aether sparks, but instead targeting buffs. The dispel magic strength could be greater if disenchantment limited to current battle

This would allow Death a more strategic and powerful, if more limited, counter to buff strategies. It is nowhere as powerful as a sorcery wizard with aether binding, but is nevertheless worth researching in majority of games.

[Seravy]

A different kind of idea I had earlier today : If it loses the "poison" type, it can become a spell that works on Death creatures. (whether we want Death to have an easier time using spells against other Death wizards, or not, is a different story. We probably don't, but if we change our mind, this is one way to have it happen.)

However, in all cases, keep it in mind Reaper Slash is already special : It's the ONLY generic direct damage spell in the entire realm. All other spells, even if they deal damage, target resistance not defense.

[zitro1987]

The idea of also being able to target death units is very welcome - it is usually not fun fighting the undead as death as you can't use half your spells against them (or are less effective).


I am aware it is special for realm, though direct damage exists via wave of despair, and in most cases, resistance-based spells kind of serve the same purpose against most units, if less predictable. I do understand why you added the spell, I'm just trying to figure out a way to expand its usage (targeting buffs, undead) in a way that gives it some character rather than just '45 strength generic attack'


For example, syphon life is an excellent addition and is superior to ghouls in undead creation (and gives you skill points). I love the spell despite not being that powerful (it is probably inferior to reaper slash). Wave of despair is complex requiring strategy. Reaper Slash could have a perk or two without breaking the spell.

[Nelphine]

6 water elementals in a sorcery node just killed my 2 demon lords. I officially feel like demon lords are squishy (which obviously I never expected to say).

[Seravy]

Ugh, 6 water elementals in a Sorcery node kills almost anything - they have decent ranged attack power and go first. In general in a ranged vs ranged fight the side that goes first has a massive advantage - and demon lords are no exception. Ranged units are more suited to fight melee enemies, not other ranged.

If not even 6 water elementals in an AI city can cause you to lose Demon Lords, what can, that is reasonably expected in garrisons? The AI only has 1-3 summons and a bunch of normal units. A Water Elemental has an attack power higher than a Nightmare, the best ranged normal unit in the game.
Yes, "squishy", it has to be otherwise you could use a stack of 2-3 as an unstoppable doomstack.

(also, Demon Lords are hit especially hard by this whole "who goes first" business - as they cast Black Prayer, Terror and Darkness themselves through summoned demons. That cuts the enemy damage output very significantly. They are more of a defender unit, while Death Knights are better for offense.)

Maybe we do need to nerf Archangels - last time I hard them in relevant quantities was against something like a Nature wizard sending stacks of buffed behemoths and wyrms and there it seemed fair. If you are expecting to not lose a unit to that many water elementals, something must be wrong in Life magic, losing them is normal. But I still think the problem is the buffs, not the Archangel itself...

[Nelphine]

Except I only use one buff on archangels - endurance, and then I use them singly. They simply rampage through things. But I haven't used them since the switch for endurance. So that might make a noticeable difference. I'll try to get them next game.

[Seravy]

By buffs I meant the combat spells - prayer, invulnerability etc and ofc healing.
But Archangels might have too much base armor to begin with, 12 is a lot and then they get the Holy Bonus. That included they have 14 which is only 1 less than Behemoth.

[Nelphine]

Right. Those water elementals tear apart demon lords - or death knights or great drakes or great wyrms - but they don't hurt archangel plus endurance. And yes there's also those buffs you mention, but what's worse is simply healing. Your archangel effectively has Regen 5 even if it costs combat castings. So armor 16 (higher than behemoth) and Regen 5 (better than behemoth) before you cast a single spell from the archangel.

And that Regen only needs to kick in before it dies, so you can afford to cast prayer and invulnerability (one from you and one from the archangel) before starting the heal spam.

And if you have supreme light, then it's 19 (21 with prayer) resistance is converted into 6 or 7 more armor. And lionheart than becomes another +1 armor too.

[Seravy]

I was wondering if maybe we want to change the name of "Summon Zombie" to something more flavorful like "Call to the Graves", or follow the default naming pattern and simply have the spell name "Zomibes".

Summon Demon should likely stay as is because that's how the ability always appeared on Demon Lords.