41 Vice: Commodicator/Pindore

[Commodore]

Those trees by the scout - are they snow-capped?

Yes. So we can probably assume land borders north, not south.

[Commodore]

Oh hey, Big and Small, you magnificent monster script you.

Pindicator, I am feeling much happier about Giggles over FDR.

[Commodore]

Okay, we have to murder Superdeath.

Highlit his obvious second city spot. We're going Hunting->Archery

[pindicator]

Paraphrasing some of our chats (and correct me of any of this is wrong Comm), but The Plan right now is as such:

1. Pigs first for faster growth and faster skirmishers. Worker finished last turn and moved to the pigs in this current one
2. Warrior and grow until Archery finishes. Back of the hand calculation says the capital will be at 12/22 food and the warrior at 8/15 hammers at end of turn 13 when Archery finishes
3. T14 the pasture finishes, work the pig, start a skirmisher
4. End of t15 - hit size 2, skirmisher at 6/25, cow pasture only 1/4 done
5. Work ele with 2nd citizen on t16 & 17. Skirmisher at 18/25, food at 8/24 end of t17
6. Work the pig & cow t18. Skirmisher finishes eot 19, though we can make it eot 18 by working cow and ele on 18 instead
7. Warrior finishes eot 19 or 20, depending on prev turn
8. At size 3 settler will take just over 7t to complete

[Commodore]

As for why...

Need to figure out when Superdeath finishes his warrior and ambush him.

[SadGit]

I am a bit sad to see that the first impulse on meeting a neighbour is again to think of straight extermination. Maybe its the game, this site or just the players I read, but given a name like Civilization I would have hoped for some thoughts on possible trade and coexistance. Perhaps even rejoicing in meeting fellowman and the oppotunities for cultural exchange and such. Oh well, rivers of blood it is I guess.

[Zed-F]

Meeting another player sharing an island is not the same as meeting another player on a continent with other players around. In the former case, conflict is a zero sum game, which means conflict is inevitable; in the latter it’s not - you might expand by warring with a different neighbor instead. Commopin are going to war straight away because with skirmishers they have a strong competitive advantage now, and can cripple or eliminate their competition for expansion room relatively quickly.

But any way you slice it you will need to fight someone. Nobody starts the game with enough natural expansion room to win. Expecting people not to think of neighbors as potential food first and trading partners second ignores the fact that this is a competitive game, not the real world.

[Lewwyn]

Even in Always Peace, the one who expands the furthest and most quickly and is most able to block off others is more likely the victor.

[pindicator]

What's funny is if you give us both a galley at the start and the equation changes: then we both have easy opportunity off of what looks to be a small island. Well, then why not just tech Sailing and peacefully coexist? Opportunity cost: the time to tech Sailing and build the galley takes early game resources that we'd rather spend on this that help us expand. And that 1 galley can also get us 2 skirmishers which can potentially take a city at this early phase in the game. Finally, civ is not a cooperative game. In fact, I'm not sure there really are any cooperative 4x games. Your goal is to conquer your enemies, which is easier done with me cities (more production). Or get to the end of the tech tree, which also requires more cities (more science). Even the victory types that don't necessarily require more cities need enough cities so that you are able to defend against your neighbor's aggressions. 

With the start Commodore settled on we are going to get our first skirmisher out eot19, and will be reaching Superdeath's lands right around when the first settler will be out and about (if he goes for the fast first settler like we had originally liked). That would mean 1 or 2 warriors, which our 1 skirmisher probably won't kill on its own, but it will certainly delay his snowball, perhaps even catch a settler unawares. (How sweet would that be for Comm?)

[Old Harry]

I am a bit sad to see that the first impulse on meeting a neighbour is again to think of straight extermination. Maybe its the game, this site or just the players I read, but given a name like Civilization I would have hoped for some thoughts on possible trade and coexistance. Perhaps even rejoicing in meeting fellowman and the oppotunities for cultural exchange and such. Oh well, rivers of blood it is I guess.

Bravo!