[SPOILERS] PB42: Lewwyn blinds them with Science

[Magic Science]

Is the area to the southwest of the scout really a peninsula? That isn’t clear to me from my screenshot fog gazing, but you were actually in the game, so I trust your judgement. In any case, I say go southwest with the scout next. The second city is going by the sheep, and that move will reveal quite a few water tiles that could contain seafood relevant for determining its exact location. Also, it looks like there isn’t any defensive terrain on the peninsula, but there is up north, and we should make use of the pre-animal turns to explore the less safe area. Once the scout is done with the southwest peninsula, send him to the northeast. Our first warrior can spend the few turns he has before he needs to garrison the second city scouting out the little piece of land to our southeast.

I won’t have much of an opinion about how fast we want to get Sailing until we know the rest of the land, but I think that city number four being an island city is the fastest we can manage without very odd, excessively Sailing-focused play. I am also more optimistic that we will find good food in the fog than you seem to be, so I don’t think that anything drastic will be required. However, an early island city for intercontinental trade routes should be a good investment even if our home island turns out to be okay.

About the opening, I haven’t done any sims yet, so I’m not sure on specifics. However, in general, I don’t like building a road unless it is going to speed something up before too long. If a settler can reach its spot one turn faster because of it, or it saves a worker turn at a later time, then build the road. If not, then don’t and go straight for yield-boosting improvements.

Thanks for the password.

[Lewwyn]

Good call:



Not a peninsula. 4 lighthouse lakes, but no seafood or other food.

[Lewwyn]

MS you round?

[Lewwyn]

I can get 2 settlers out by T36. First city settled by t32. But I don't see any good places for our 3rd city yet. I don't want to have it next to the capital, in fact, having the third city on an island for trade routes is looking really good. I just don't know if we can afford to wait that long to tech sailing and hold off on that 3rd city. We have to find a better place for the third city on our home island. And its likely going to be north of the second city as far as I can tell.

T9: start BW EOT24
T11: Worker EOT
T12: 0/22+3 F 0/15+2 H = start warrior, work pig, Worker start pasture T15
T13: 3/22+3 F 2/15+2 H 
T14: 6/22+3 F 4/15+2 H 
T15: 9/22+6 F 6/15+2 H = work pig pasture
T16: 15/22+6 F 8/15+2 H = worker start cow pasture T19
T17: 21/22+6 F 10/15+2 H = grow EOT
T18: 5/24+6 F 12/15+3 H = work silk
T19: 11/24+8 F 0/30+4 H = Work Cow/pig start WB
T20: 19/24+8 F 4/30+4 H = worker move / grow EOT
T21: 3/26+8 F 8/30+5 H = worker move/ work silk
T22: 11/26+8 F 13/30+5 H = worker mine T25
T23: 19/26+7 F 18/30+6 H = Work Plains forest 1t / grow to 4 EOT
T24: 0/28+8 F 23/30+6 H = Work 2 silk BW EOT / WB EOT
T25: 8/28 F 0/100 +15 H = Start settler/ work pig/cow/silk/PHMine / start fishing EOT 30
T26: 8/28 F 15/100 +15 H = worker to forest
T27: 8/28 F 30/100 +15 H = worker chop T29
T28: 8/28 F 45/100 +15 H
T29: 8/28 F 60/100 +35 H
T30: 8/28 F 95/100 +15 H = worker moves / settler EOT
T31: Slavery/ settler move / start pottery? sailing?
T32: 0/100 +25 = city 2
T33: 25/100 +15
T34: 40/100 +15
T35: 105/100 Whip 2nd settler 2 eot

[Lewwyn]

EDIT: I forgot the anarchy turn somehow...


Alternate Whip plan:

T24: 0/28+8 F 24/30+6 H = Work 2 silk BW EOT / WB EOT
T25: 8/28+0 F 0/30 +0 H = start WB work pig/cow/silk/PHMine / start fishing EOT 31 +++SLAVERY ANARCHY
T26: 8/28+6 F 0/30 +9 H = worker to forest
T27: 14/28+6 F 9/30 +9 H = worker chop T29
T28: 20/28 F 0/100 +15 H = Start settler / WB @ 18/30
T29: 20/28 F 15/100 +35 H = chop in
T30: 20/24 F 100/100 +12 H = 2 pop whip / worker moves / settler EOT / 
T31: 20/24+8 F 18/30 +4+12 = work pig/cow / WB completesEOT / settler moves / grow to 3 EOT
T32: 4/26+6 F 0/15 +8+4 H = Warrior start / WB moves / work pig/cow/PHM /start sailing? pottery? probably sailing
T33: 14/26+10 F 12/15 +4 H = Warrior EOT, net crab, work crab
T34: 24/26 F 0/60 +14+1 H = Start worker

Benefit of 2nd WB and warrior, same speed first settler, earlier whip unhappy counter. I think this is better.

[Lewwyn]

Hey, I'm real dumb. pastured cow in 3f/3h isn't it.

[Lewwyn]

So basically all of that sim is worthless. Depressed man is depressed.

[Magic Science]

   
Lewwyn has already seen this, but for any lurkers lurking from home, it’s four turns later and the land still looks bleak, and the sea isn’t much better.

Now, about the opening. I set up a sandbox and tried a few sims, but I haven’t decided on anything I like yet, so I’ll just make a few comments about the opening turns in general.

The fish and crabs in the west can support decent cities eventually, but they are too far away for settling in the initial wave, so we need to look for other food sources. Those other food sources are the sheep tile north of the capital, possible additional food further north of the capital, and possible food on the island south of the capital. Founding a city to the very near west by the crabs is possible, but that seems terrible. There is also a tiny chance that there is seafood by the land nub in east, but the seafood would need to be first ring to be manageable and it would be a bad city for this stage of the game anyway, so I think we can ignore that too.

This means the scout needs to come back east to scout the north right away. Maybe there are land neighbors to the west to meet, but they aren’t as important right now, and we already know they are far enough away that they won’t be a problem yet. I also think building a scouting workboat, not a warrior, right away after the worker is worth thinking about. The sheep spot is so close to our borders that I don’t think a warrior escort of garrison is needed yet, and learning about the island fast is going to be important even if the north does have food. However, I think it is worth considering that the island probably isn’t going to be a food-laden paradise. My woefully uninformed and biased opinion is that this start is sparse on food even for an unedited Big and Small, but the default amount still isn’t going to be incredible. We probably aren’t going to make a short hop over the water to discover normal RB lushness. This game will be a unique one for us however this goes, I think. We will probably be settling those fish and crabs in the west before too long.

[Lewwyn]

Yes the food situation is quite depressing.  Plus no early happy sources for more depression. 

I was also considering the scout going east next. Thought about the WB before warrior as well. Its also why I'm considering the speed up of sailing... What if we went fishing>sailing>BW? We could still do WB first, settler for sheep city, galley, settler for island, get better trade routes and use that to speed up BW tech.

[Magic Science]

I would prefer not to research Sailing before Bronze Working if we can avoid it. If there is a city spot in the north, then I would prefer to research Bronze Working for a better snowball and settle the north before the island. If there isn’t a city site in the north, then I would need to consider your idea of researching Fishing, then Sailing, then Bronze Working more closely. However, keep in mind that (according to my rough sims) we should be able to finish Sailing by Turn 40 or so even if we go Bronze Working first. With some overflow and chop setup to get a fast galley, that could have a third city founded on the island by Turn 45 or so, which isn't too bad. At this point, the key is more scouting so we can decide what to do better. There has been a lot "if there is/isn't a city site in the north..." in our planning so far.

Also, I would like to note the possibility that the “island” isn’t actually an island. It could be on the same landmass as our capital, just curved around weirdly. Big and Small does odd stuff sometimes. That doesn’t change much, though. If there is food over there, we still want it, but I thought it would be good to keep the possibility that we won’t get intercontinental trade routes in mind.