[SPOILERS] PB42: Lewwyn blinds them with Science

[Lewwyn]

Pasture finished. Running the scout back west. Nothing much else.

I figure we will chop into our settler for sure. If we move the 2nd city 1 north its not going to be able to share the PHM, but I guess that's okay given we want to spread our cities out a bit more than usual with this land.

[Magic Science]

   
I have thought more about, and I have come back around to wanting to put our second city on tile A. It gets an instant river trade connection, so we can get a bit more commerce and be spared needing to build roads until a little later. It shares more tiles with the capital. In particular, I think that the plains hill mine will be nice to be able to swap around, and the extra lighthouse lake tile will be good for a low food city. With our poor luxury situation, overlapping cottage tiles will be good so that we can be sure to work them all. In general, I think that both B and C are too long-term. Sure, someday they will reach some tiles that we probably won’t work otherwise, but that will be a long time, and I would prefer to settle the city that is better in short- and medium-terms. What do you think?


Oh, and we also met Donovan Zoi without noticing. Espionage point values indicate that it was on Turn 10, so he must have met us after you played the turn and took this screenshot. This contact has me concerned. If he came from the west, then it means we don’t even get to take our sweet time settling our mediocre fish and crab cities. If he came from across the water in the south, then we will have to race and maybe fight to get our piece of land down there. It seems slightly more likely to me that he came from the south, since I’m sure you would have said something if you had seen his scout again with Wolfeater and chances are good his scout would have crossed paths with our vision by now.

[Lewwyn]

Yikes! yeah it must have been contact from the south... a scout on the island there?

[Lewwyn]

Cow pasture started.

[Lewwyn]

WB will finish EOT21, Cap grows to 3 EOT20. I think we start a settler directly after. No need for an escort if we settle A.


Should we settle A or C? Well I do think we can get the road built on the plains tile and connect the city to the river before the city settles, so that shouldn't be the measure of our decision I think. sharing the PH and the lighthouse lake are good reasons for A though. Tough call really, I do want to maximize the land we have and spread the food to cover actual good cities, and settling so close to the capital stunts the city in the long term particularly because we are going to settle cities on the east and west coasts of the capital as well. I really favor C. I will think about it some more.

[Lewwyn]

Cow pasture finished:



That's nice at least.

Demo's say we're in the lead in mfg and food now midturn:



Still moving the scout out west. A long way to travel.



Let's see about settler w/ chop vs. w/o.

[Lewwyn]

T19: 11/24+7 F WB 15/30+5 H = Work Cow/pig
T20: 18/24+7 F WB 20/30+5 H = worker move to forest / grow to 3 EOT
T21: 1/26+7 F WB 25/30+6 H = worker move to PH / work silk / WB finish EOT
T22: 1/26+0 F Settler 0/100 +13+1 H = worker mine T25
T23: 1/26+0 F Settler 14/100 +13 H =
T24: 1/26+0 F Settler 27/100 +13 H = BW EOT / WB EOT
T25: 1/26+0 F Settler 30/100 +14 H = work pig/cow/PHMine / start fishing EOT 30
T26: 1/26+0 F Settler 44/100 +14 H = worker to forest
T27: 1/26+0 F Settler 58/100 +14 H = worker chop T29
T28: 1/26+0 F Settler 62/100 +14 H
T29: 1/26+0 F Settler 76/100 +14+20 H = settler EOT


T30: SLAVERY = worker moves + roads / settler moves
T31: Worker finishes road settler moves to C
T32: Settle City C / Start sheep pasture

T30: SLAVERY = worker moves + 1troad / settler moves
T31: Settle City A / Worker moves start sheep pasture

Some notes, we have to chop. It saves us 1 turn on the settler and the worker doesn't have anything else to do if we don't chop. we get 10 overflow which could easily be the start of another WB.

Currently we don't have any defense for the settler from barbarians. In this case, we can settle city A without worry from animals, but I think we get warriors starting t28?? Which means we might need to build a warrior before the settler? Or overflow from the settler for a 1T warrior and hope there's no barbs near city 2 placement to start. I would prefer to be a bit on the risky side rather than wait a turn (we could have the chop go straight into the warrior and get enough production to finish the settler with the over flow, this would get the warrior out EOT29 and the settler out EOT30, Settle A T32, B T33.)

We still need BW to see about copper as well. Maybe it will change our minds about city placement.

[Lewwyn]

Our 3rd city... I just have no idea where its going. It's insane but we don't have the tech for the deer up north, the fish and the crab are miles away, any cities without food resources are going to need lighthouses and farms to viable, which again we don't and won't have that tech for a bit yet.

Pray for us.

[Magic Science]

Your ideas have me back to feeling very conflicted about where to settle our second city. I don’t feel comfortable declaring one spot as my favorite anymore, so I will just list some things to keep in mind to help me (and you, hopefully) think about this. Luckily, there are still a few days to decide.

I think that putting the second city on tile A will result in the strongest second city. That is, a city there will grow faster, get better yields, and so on, than a city settled on tiles B or C. The second lighthouse lake, the plains hill mine, and other tiles that can be shared with the capital are the cause of that. However, it is not an obvious choice to settle there because the impact of the second city on other cities is important too. A city on tile A will force us to establish the little crab city three tiles west of Thomas Dolby, but I think that one tile north of that is preferable (it saves a grassland forest in exchange for a flatland plains and can share more good lands tiles). It also, as you point out, stretches the relatively few good land tiles in our immediate starting area even more thinly than they are already going to be stretched.

Settling on tile B or tile C would address those problems to an extent, but those cities aren’t as strong at the start. In particular, tile C has only the sheep tile as a nice tile before a border expansion and/or Pottery for cottages along the river. B has a grassland mine along with the sheep pasture, and it grabs more new decent land tiles than A or C, but it is off the coast, so it won’t have the benefit of a lighthouse lake.

In regards to our opening moves, what you outlined is what I have been thinking and simulating as well. One variation I tried that would address any concerns about the second city’s escort and garrison is to work a plains forest tile with the third citizen and produce a warrior after the workboat. Then build the settler after the warrior is done and switch to the plains mine as soon as it is finished. Following that plan, the warrior only takes two turns and the settler is not delayed at all. The consequence is that we have less overflow when the settler is done.

[Lewwyn]

Huh actually I missed up the math t25:

T21: 1/26+7 F WB 25/30+6 H = worker move to PH / work silk / WB finish EOT
T22: 1/26+0 F Settler 0/100 +13+1 H = worker mine T25
T23: 1/26+0 F Settler 14/100 +13 H =
T24: 1/26+0 F Settler 27/100 +13 H = BW EOT / WB EOT
T25: 1/26+0 F Settler 40/100 +14 H = work pig/cow/PHMine / start fishing EOT 30
T26: 1/26+0 F Settler 54/100 +14 H = worker to forest
T27: 1/26+0 F Settler 68/100 +14 H = worker chop T29
T28: 1/26+0 F Settler 72/100 +14 H
T29: 1/26+0 F Settler 86/100 +14+20 H = settler EOT

Settler would have finished naturally on t29 without the chop. And we can't get the worker onto a forest a turn earlier to speed the settler anyway. I assume you need to work the PF to get a 2t warrior:

T21: 1/26+7 F WB 25/30+6 H = worker move to PH / work silk / WB finish EOT
T22: 1/26+6 F Warrior 0/15 +7+1 H = Work PF/cow/pig - worker mine T25
T23: 7/26+6 F Warrior 8/15 +7 H =
T24: 13/26+0 F Settler 0/100 +13 H = BW EOT / WB EOT
T25: 13/26+0 F Settler 13/100 +14 H = work pig/cow/PHMine / start fishing EOT 30
T26: 13/26+0 F Settler 27/100 +14 H = worker to forest
T27: 13/26+0 F Settler 41/100 +14 H = worker chop T29
T28: 13/26+0 F Settler 55/100 +14 H
T29: 13/26+0 F Settler 69/100 +14+20 H = settler EOT

Okay, I could live with that.