Lurker Thread - No Players!!!

[Speaker]

If you are playing in PBEM4, please leave this thread now, mmmkay?

Anyone else: discuss!

[Speaker]

We haven't even played 1 turn and Krill is already complaining. This guy is such a whiner, it's not even funny!

First things first: I hate my leader. Worst leader in the game IMO

He can't be serious. He would take Saladin over Darius? Financial is almost always rated as the best trait in the game, so how does he figure that a Financial leader could be the worst?

and in this game, every other team has some sort of early game trait, plus one econ trait, whereas I have Org...a trait that saves me 40 hammers in my 2 coastal cities, cheap factories that will be a non-factor and cheap court houses, on Noble.

What he fails to mention is that he is the only leader in the game to have two financial traits, and he neglects to mention that Financial is stronger than Philosophical, so he is all set up to be a tech powerhouse, which is a great place to be in an always war, no tech trading game. Furthermore, the value of Organized gets a huge boost by virtue of him being the only leader with it in the game. And two other bits of pertinent information:
1) The map is on standard, which is quite large for 6 players--He should know this
2) The map has 20% more food than the typical Inland Sea script, and all the tundra/ice has been removed, and desert minimized, so the number of cities planted should be higher--He doesn't know this

In addition to this, I have a UU that is pretty nice...but still not as good as drafted rifles, which is the more likely beeline for if and when I ever go on the attack

Janissaries arrive a full age before Rifles, and Gunpowder is a prereq for Rifles anyways, so they will have plenty of time to be the dominant unit in the game. Also note that there are no other UUs in the game after the Medieval Era.

and a UB that basically gives me 2 free happy at full cost, compared to Mayas' 3 happy half price Colosseum, which is at construction, a critical tech to research, so the fact it is 1 tech after maths isn't all that important.

And here you go. The Ottoman UB is either the best or second best in the game. An aqueduct that also provides +2 happiness, and is available at mathematics. Aqueducts are much more essential buildings than Colosseums, so the Ottomans have a huge advantage here.

Ottomans also have two of the best three starting techs in the game.

All in all, I at Krill.

[Sullla]

I also think that Darius (Fin/Org) of Ottomans is an outstanding combination. Honestly, I would have rated Wang Kon (Fin/Pro) of Ottomans as a great combination! You've got Financial in a No Tech Trading game, along with what's probably the #2 or #3 best civilization overall. Griping about that is simply ridiculous, IMO. And if it bothers you so much, why sign up for a game where you were randomly assigned a leader/civ pairing?

Look, I don't want to call out Krill, but he's played in three games I designed (CivFanatics Demogame, Pitboss #1, Pitboss #3) and complained frequently in every single one about the starting position, even in games where it was obvious that his team had gotten very good terrain. At some point, you just need to shut up and play the darn game.

[Yazilliclick]

Well if you don't make the hand you were dealt look bad then it doesn't look as amazing when you take the lead and win

[novice]

At some point, you just need to shut up and play the darn game.

He can whine and play the darn game for all I care, as long as he plays the darn game. That just gives us more to discuss.

[novice]

Your first post is readable as a mouseover text in the PBEM4 forum, maybe you should edit in some fluff at the beginning, if that will work.

Hmm, maybe I shouldn't have let that cat out of the bag. There is also some very spoilerish map information available in the map planning thread mouseover text.

EDIT: I realized that since what I quoted was originally edited into my post in Krill's thread, I could unedit it, so I did. I'll put it back in if Speaker edits the first post of the map planning thread.

[Sullla]

Problem with the map editing thread mouse-over fixed. Nice catch, novice!

[Sullla]

Of these civs, I think Darius of Ottomans is the most powerful (two economic traits, great UB and UU, cheap courthouses and nice starting techs), and Pacal II of China is nice as well (financial, cheap workers, cheap granary, good starting techs and a nice UU, albeit with a bad UB). Combine Darius with what I think is the most dangerous player in this field (Krill), and this will make for an interesting game...

At least one person disagrees with Krill about his leader!

I've been surprised by how many players have founded their cities in place rather than move to pick up the second food bonus. Yes, settling on a plains hill tile is great - but it's still inferior to grabbing a 6 food tile like corn or pigs. Don't forget, you can still mine the plains hill for great production for moving off it! That's what I would do, anyway.

Nice map design from Speaker by creating that choice on the first turn for everyone.

[Speaker]

Something got screwed when editing the turn order. Egypt (Cyneheard) is in the starting location that is supposed to be Maya. Some (all?) of the other players appear to be in the wrong places as well.

[Swiss Pauli]

And it looks like Maya's got Egypt's starting techs...