RB PBEM #2 - Justinian (SPOILERS!)

[Dreylin]

t76 - Yaz relays Darrell's showing Music in 5t ... looks like SL doesn't stand a chance.

Alphabet from SL
Monarchy & Calendar came in on the inter-turn.

Interesting, SL has switched things up to Monarchy; Darrell probably got in touch. Of course that makes me wonder whether he's still up for the Alpha/Mon trade with SL.... I check with Yaz, and he hasn't heard anything.

Thessalonica: Worker - Settler
Antioch: Granary - Moai Statues

I remember not to revolt to Hereditary Rule, as that would delay Bureaucracy revolt in a couple of turns.

While looking at the log I see Darrell's GM (and a GG), and a Prophet popping for (presumably) Krill. Uh-oh, maybe I'm racing after all.... I dial up Darrell and am reassured to discover that Krill is selling him the GP, so I don't have to worry. (will post chat later)

Christianity makes its may into Constantinople, and Buddhism spread to Nicomedia; pair of Workers roading their way there as well. New Worker jumps into the grassforest West of Thessalonica and will start a Plantation on the Silks next turn.

Galley passes through Persepolis - so now I can reach America & France even if Yaz bumps me - and the Scout looks off the edge and see US borders under the fog.

I offer CoL to Yaz (he still hasn't got it somehow!?), but can't do the same for Alpha; I leave a note for him to request it from me on his turn. I send the same note to SL about Monarchy (which is also in limbo), so we'll see if that takes. Theology offered to Darrell per-agreement, and a note left to get him to offer CS back to me.

I take another look at the Settling party heading to Red Dot; if I drop them off this turn, then the city will be founded on the same turn as if I had taken them all the way onboard whip. Also, if Nicomedia's guard starts South now, he will also reach the spot at the same time. This way I save lots of turns of Galley movement ... though I'm not entirely sure what I'll do with them instead, it does leave me with a SE ferry. (the second Galley is heading back to NW to carry the next Settler) Actually, looking again it'll be a turn earlier by walking!

Now I've got Calendar, looking at the mini-map reveals that we're all strongly biased into the Northern Hemisphere ... that'll cause interesting effects when Astonomy comes to town.

[Dreylin]

Chatting with Darrel while playing the turn (or at least trying):

me: Hi there

Darrell: hey what's up?

me: That's your Merchant, right?
and Krill's Prophet?

Darrell: it should have been born at the end of my turn

me: your GG?

Darrell: I did get a GG

me: 'K, so it's your GM

Darrell: how can you tell?

me: After GG, and before tGL buiilt

Darrell: BTW, the city manager auto assigned an engineer last turn .
Lucky for me I check all my cities every turn

me: well there's time on a PBEM
anyway, I was surprised you didn't request Theology

Darrell: I forgot

me: (I'll offer)

Darrell: thanks

me: np, you'll still have it on your turn
just don't forget to offer CS to me, OK?


Darrell: will do
mister Im SPI and can do what I bloody well please
I love that trait

me: actually, I can't quite
just got HR

Darrell: aha

me: but can't switch...
Anyway, Krill just popped his Prophet
so I may be racing anyway
would you let me know if he bulbs Theo?

Darrell: yes
he wont
I am buying it from him

me: aha

Darrell: temple of solomon

me: Excellent!
:D

Darrell:

me: sure
How much did he get?
CS?

Darrell: 50% of gold for first 20, 25% of gold thereafter
tough deal but it was worth it for me
very tough deal

me: ouch!

Darrell: I know
it was a hard bargain
in the end, i didn't think I could get a GP on my own reliably

me: maybe so, and the earlier you get it, the more benefit

Darrell: if he declares on me, remind me to gift it to you then raze it

me: (is that raw gold, or adjusted?)

Darrell: after buildings

me: well, I'll get back to the turn
now I know I don't have to move back into panic-race mode

Darrell: yeah
did you get my old IMs?
lie to me and say you would beat t82

me: heh
Oh, I could certainly beat it.
a-yup


I don't know, I haven't gone back and calculated

Darrell: well I think you must have
its amazing what a differnece I get on the chhops, that's the only reason I caught up
10 hammesr a turn from nomral production
but a fast 50 with the chops

me: yeah, that's a monster

Darrell: Im tempted to ask for a buddhist missionary
to get the hammers
but its costly to spread it around

me: I'd do that, sure
more gold for me once my Shrine is done


Darrell: right...what about some kind of dela, like every one you send me, I make a second
time to think about it, the logistics are insane pretty much

me: yeah, it'll be a while before we could arrange an exchange
post-Optics, probably

Darrell: too bad the boat I have near you is a wB and not a gallyey
I coul dhave gifted it to you to carry a few back

me: just spotted him
Welcome to Byzantium

Darrell: thank you
home of the half cost +2H temples :P

me: :D

Darrell: I have a bad feeling in 9 turns your going to show up with paper when I'm halfway done with it and we'll be in a similar situation
might be good to avoid that

me: heh

Darrell: I'll say this, without the hammer bonus I see no need to build UoS
and I plan to tech paper next after music
so keep those two nuggest to yourself and think about what it might allow

me: sounds like it opens up the option for me to go Mach-Optics and still have a shot at UoS

Darrell: we should talk when the time gets closer for sure

[Dreylin]

t77 - Darrell asks for Theology, but no sign of CS.

Monarchy to SL, Alphabet to Yaz. Yep, there's CS in Darrell's "Can't Trade" box durn it. I send him a diplo screen requesting delivery.

SL has finally converted to Buddhism, and by doing so seems to have upped the cost for city investigation at Lords - guess there's some arcane scheme behind how religions affect visibility. <shrug>

Workers working, travellers travelling. Drama will complete at EOT, and I can even dial it down to 90%. A few turns of saving gold will follow (probably with HBR dialed up) and then we'll see what Darrell has to say....

[T-hawk]

SL has finally converted to Buddhism, and by doing so seems to have upped the cost for city investigation at Lords - guess there's some arcane scheme behind how religions affect visibility. <shrug>

That would be because you lost the religion espionage discount. Espionage costs (including city visibility and investigation) get -15% if your state religion is present in the target city and is NOT your target's state religion. If you share Buddhism now, that doesn't apply.

[Dreylin]

That would be because you lost the religion espionage discount. Espionage costs (including city visibility and investigation) get -15% if your state religion is present in the target city and is NOT your target's state religion. If you share Buddhism now, that doesn't apply.

Cool, I dimly remembered that there was something like that in there, and making comments like that usually brings out the lurkers to post...

Oh, and it reminded me that I haven't looked at my EPs for a couple of turns; I know I promised graphs once I'd got Darrell's graphs, and it looks like 2t minimum before I get there.

[Dreylin]

t78 - CS for Drama trade with Darrell.

Now that's an interesting thing; I discovered Drama last turn, but Darrell could still request it in trade. That means the the re-alignment point from "Cant Trade" happens at the end of the round rather than after a player has held the tech for the full round. That means that Darrell can ALWAYS request a tech someone else has just discovered, but Krill cannot until a full round has passed. I think this helps people at the top end of the order over those lower down.

HBR dialed up to receive the 1 free beaker per turn while I accumulate some gold. 100% research runs at -41gpt right now, so here are some research times:

Machinery - 7t
Paper - 5t
Philosophy - 7t

at 0% Science, I make 43gpt so it looks like I'll want to spend at least 5t saving gold before turning on a tech....


OK, back to the turn:

Civics revolution time: Hereditary Rule & Bureaucarcy on the block.

AP down to 8 more turns; I'm going to keep the two pre-shopped forests for a future build (or Lumbermills), but I am going to chop the plains forest that sits in the corner between Constantinople and Thessalonica - which will send 16h into Const and knock off a turn.

Hmmm, SL has dialed up Feudalism next, but he's also just gone through a revolt: OrgRel, HR ... and Bureau. So Darrell has traded CS away to other than myself. I'd bet that it's at least a part buy-off from Music.

Whip Forges in Adrianople & Nicaea. Adrianople will follow with a Trireme, while Nicaea will put out a Missionary for Red Dot.

[Dreylin]

A speculative chat with Darrell:

Darrell: Hey
Get cs?

me: Well yeah, you got Theo, right?

Darrell: I dunno haven't seen the save
Put probably
But
Sorry I was replying to an old I'M and assumed you were asking about CS

me: ah
you've seen the save more recently than I have
BTW, wanted to ask why you're trying to insist on researching Paper yourself rather than letting me do it and trading it in?
Since I can start right away

Darrell: Uh
I'm on music
At least I thought I was
I don't ever recall "insisting" on anything, at least not with you

me: Hmmmmm:

Darrell: I'll say this, without the hammer bonus I see no need to build UoS
and I plan to tech paper next after music

So maybe a "firm statement of intent" rather than an insistance...

Darrell: Sure
I wa telling you (way) in advance my plans, without aksing you to reciprocate, to avoid overlap
If it came across like I was unwilling to budge it certainly wasn't my intent

me: Well I'd been strongly inclined towards Paper myself
for UoS

Darrell: I thought "plan" was a pretty key word :-P

me: well sure, OK

Darrell: I assumed so but you didn't indicate it so I decided to show my cards so to speak
I'd be more than happy to leave paper to you and trade for it

me: Where would you go instead?
(thinking of trades)
would you go Mach instead?

Darrell: Hmm
I need to pin down ruff and krill
But maybe philo
optics also a possibility

me: Optics needs Mach

Darrell: I am trading for machinery

me: Still trading with Krill then?
aha

Darrell: Yeah for the time being

me: well then Paper for me seems good


Darrell: He's running away a bit but with tech trading he can't get that far ahead

me: well only if we actually stop trading with him at some point...

Darrell: Okay what would you like for paper?

If we stop how do we know it just doesn't drive the others into his camp?

me: Well, whatever I can get....

Darrell: Musci?

me: Hmmm
loses quite a bit of value once the Artist is gone

Darrell: True
I have only one trade for it
And didn't get much value

me: Well you do get the Golden Age

Darrell: Optics costs more or less?

me: than Paper?
not sure

Darrell: You'd need to get machinery too

me: think they're about the same
sure
of course you're not going to tell me where you're getting it from...

Darrell: Okay let me ask around to be sure but ill plan for optics after music
No need to tell you what you already figured out

me: Well you're earlier comment re: nailing down Krill & Ruff implies SL is lined up for Mach

Darrell: Oh
No I am still trading with krill and you initial guess was correct

me: Yeah, I figured he was on Mach

Darrell: I suspect paper for machiney is something he might consider if you were so inclined

me: yeah, I'll think about that
So when do you plan to start isolating Krill?

Darrell: You need a work boat?

me:

Darrell: Not sure

me: What you want for it?

Darrell: I will not organize it, too dangerous for me I think
Eh
Gold I guess

me: Well as his other neighbour, I'm not making a move without you as part of the move....

Darrell: Agreed on that, but it doesn't make sense to be part of a 2v3 if you know what I mean

me: BTW, Optics & Paper are same cost
And I thought you had good relations with SL & Ruff...

Darrell: Perfect!
I do, they are quite good with ruff. Sl is hard for me to peg but we definitely have some bonds

me: From what I can tell SL is as nervous of Krill as the rest of us
he & I have good relations

Darrell: Do you have borders settled?

me: mostly, yeah

Darrell: I am close to that with ruff

me: through Yaz's land, right?


Darrell: Prereq really for closer cooperarion
Yeah

me: yeah
Well, let me speculate for a bit here...
logic says that I should use my UU
but that would require Astronomy
to get the most of it, could bulb with Lib?
the tech & military build-up would require coordination up-front

Darrell: You problem is exactly that
Astronomy comes asfter you uu when other units available

me: unles someone beelines it
or GS-jumps halfway through Edu & grabs it from Lib

Darrell: Can't a gs get astro?
Part of it...

me: probably not if Paper is in play
and then PP

Darrell: Hmm
Yeah that's probably right

me: Yeah, EDU, PP, Optics, Paper
and beyond that you'd have to prevent access to SciMeth

Darrell: Too bad

me: is also on the Artist list, but that has even more problems

Darrell: Hmm...I need to go but I'm interested.

me: well think about it
we seem to have an understanding to cover the next ~10t of teching
so we have some time

So damn, it looks like I'm going to have to be the one planning this campaign against Krill; guess I'm going to have to spend some serious time contemplating the possibilities....

[Dreylin]

t79 - think I'll take some pictures today. Why? Because I haven't for a while.

No builds complete, so let's look at the log ... Ruff adopting Bureaucracy shows that Darrell had the whole lot of us lined up for CS trades (or swung them with the rest /very/ quickly); so much for a "special relationship"!

And look at this; Yaz completes the Great Wall! He has Stone so it's a short build, but that just shows that Darrell & Ruff aren't putting too much of a hurt on him at the moment!

Exploring:

and a new city to boot!

Forest chop completes into Antioch bringing the Moai build down to 2t ... will follow with a Lighthouse to actually make the water tiles useful!

Start reviewing the cities and there were actually a pair of builds completed last turn: Adrianople & Nicaea completed their Forges and started a Trireme and a Buddhist Missionary respectively. I also need to tweak the tiles at the capital slightly to bring the AP build down to 5t (incl. chop).

Looks like I'll get Darrell's graphs after EOT, so I'll make a follow-up post with those in.

[Dreylin]

Graphs for 160AD:






Darrell is clearly ahead in GNP, however I seem to be keeping up with SL. Prod & Food are equivalent to Darrell's, and nicely ahead of SL's. Power, of course is not something I'm attempting to keep up with.

[Rowain]

t79 - think I'll take some pictures today. Why? Because I haven't for a while.

....


Looks like I'll get Darrell's graphs after EOT, so I'll make a follow-up post with those in.

Looking forward to it

Edit: Too slow so Thanks for the graphs