41 Vice: Commodicator/Pindore

[Commodore]

Which new cities did you settle recently / are planning to settle soon?

Hobart there was captured.
We also settled Morton in the south for our own horses this turn. 
Last turn we settled Hendricks, first-ring cornfish city. 
Turn before that was Wheeler, first ring clam city to help Hamlin (former Superdeath capital, already size five).
Turn before was capturing Wilcox up on the peninsula. 

It's been...expensive. We're going to push out "outer ring" stuff more, north peninsula and Silver Island, then backfill the good sites as we go.

[Commodore]

CANCEL ALL PLANS. WE CAN WIN THIS GAME.

Donovan Zoi has as many wonders as cities. I kind of feel that this C3 galley, C2/shock chariot, and C2 horse archer can pull a Cortes and can conquer him by themselves. He is pretty advanced, though. At least it's a lot of known tech bonus...and he's about as far as is possible from Rusten.
Gavagai ----- Donovan ----- BGNu ----- Mr. Cairo ----- _
----- Superdeath ----- Pindore ------ Naufragar ---- Rusten

[Commodore]

It's been in the minimap, but for the curious:

We're highest city count, at 17, with a settler on the map and two more soon built. Also, Apache is dead in 2t; we'll keep it if it has whales/more seafood, otherwise we burn. The plan's been 20 by 120; don't think that'll be a problem at all. The current map shows us dotting things to 34. Game winner is going to have >50.

[Mardoc]

Game winner is going to have >50.

Fortunately it looks like half of them will be simple fishing villages that don't require much attention and just trickle in the cash .

[Commodore]

Game winner is going to have >50.

Fortunately it looks like half of them will be simple fishing villages that don't require much attention and just trickle in the cash .

That's a pretty idyllic spin on "permanently enraged drafting camps". Kremlin would be dope. Although honestly, most of the cities are actually going to have enough mines/workshops to 5-turn destroyers with drydocks; that's the aim at least, because this is also a game that will need navy in a bad way.

I'm getting increasingly alarmed by Rusten's steady GNP. I could get galleons by turn 140, easy, with that GNP. So I am somewhat arbitrarily declaring that we have 40 turns (144) to get to Astronomy ourselves or we're toast. Once we get to galleons and we can drive away Rusten, we can see about conquering Donovan's shrine. But we've got to get Astro. That leaves us:
Code of Laws
Calendar
Iron Working
Metal Casing
Compass
Machinery
Optics
Additionally, when the golden age comes in roughly 30t from now we're going to want Mysticism->Polytheism->Monotheism->Monarchy->Feudalism. Vassalage will let us make C1 galleons/caravels and 5XP land units...Spiritual Rusten will match that at least.

[Zed-F]

From that list it looks like you are planning to get Calendar / Iron Working prior to Metal Casting... if so, what’s the motivation?

[Commodore]

1AD
The word for today is "potential".

We're eventually capable of turning that crop into usable GNNP?MFG. But until then...

I feel like a lot of painful compromises are in the near future though. Guys, as a general note, don't try and push great people from your glorious potential bureaucap. Still, this is going to be able to net second GP in 18 turns, which is a lot better than almost anywhere else. At least every single cottage is being grown still.


A decent capital alone isn't going to be enough though. We need at least two, so here's Hamlin. It'll be at the pitiful "max size" next turn, and hand over the pigs to let its helper, Wheeler to the north, likewise grow like a weed. It's no Burr, but I'm very pleased with how Hamlin has developed.

Also here; see why we need courthouses?

[Mardoc]

I'm getting increasingly alarmed by Rusten's steady GNP. I could get galleons by turn 140, easy, with that GNP. So I am somewhat arbitrarily declaring that we have 40 turns (144) to get to Astronomy ourselves or we're toast. Once we get to galleons and we can drive away Rusten, we can see about conquering Donovan's shrine. But we've got to get Astro. That leaves us:
Code of Laws
Calendar
Iron Working
Metal Casing
Compass
Machinery
Optics
Additionally, when the golden age comes in roughly 30t from now we're going to want Mysticism->Polytheism->Monotheism->Monarchy->Feudalism. Vassalage will let us make C1 galleons/caravels and 5XP land units...Spiritual Rusten will match that at least.

So, two questions:
a) How many beakers is that, anyway? How does it compare to your current production?
iii) Are you suspending REX, slowing expansion, or are your cities growing enough that you don't have to?
6) How's your population growth / cottage growth doing? Is that going to bail you out?

[pindicator]

I'm getting increasingly alarmed by Rusten's steady GNP. I could get galleons by turn 140, easy, with that GNP. So I am somewhat arbitrarily declaring that we have 40 turns (144) to get to Astronomy ourselves or we're toast. Once we get to galleons and we can drive away Rusten, we can see about conquering Donovan's shrine. But we've got to get Astro. That leaves us:
Code of Laws
Calendar
Iron Working
Metal Casing
Compass
Machinery
Optics
Additionally, when the golden age comes in roughly 30t from now we're going to want Mysticism->Polytheism->Monotheism->Monarchy->Feudalism. Vassalage will let us make C1 galleons/caravels and 5XP land units...Spiritual Rusten will match that at least.

So, two questions:
a) How many beakers is that, anyway?  How does it compare to your current production?
iii) Are you suspending REX, slowing expansion, or are your cities growing enough that you don't have to?
6) How's your population growth / cottage growth doing?  Is that going to bail you out?

Did some very basic napkin math, and due to multiple wealth builds being used across various cities decided to use how fast we teched CoL as a rough basis for our current beaker rate.

CoL = 523 beakers. Adjusted for prereqs and my best guess at the KCwT bonus we received that probably translates into 397 real beakers. It took us 5 turns, so we'll peg the current rate at 80bpt.

Bare minimum needed before kicking off the golden age is roughly 1,000 real beakers.that gets us Metal Casting, Mysticism, Polytheism, Priesthood, and Monarchy. Using the 80bpt reference, we're looking at 13 turns. Commodore recently said 18 turns on the next Great Person so we're ok there.

We immediately talked about fitting in Iron Working and Calendar to hook up the Dyes. That's another 600 real beakers, and puts us over the eta on our GA estimate but if we really want to end the golden age in Vassalage then we need another 800 beakers for Feudalism and probably won't be able to kick off the GA right away anyway.

And then Commodore asked if I had a MoM plan, so now the wheels are really turning....

[pindicator]

Oh, the remaining techs not mentioned : Compass, Machinery, Optics. About 2,100 real beakers. But we may bulb Optics depending on how well we can pull Great Scientists out of Golden Age hats