(May 31st, 2019, 11:58)JR4 Wrote: I`m really frustrated with the way things are going right now. What if we save up a ton of gold and build up for a big attack? That means going for Horseback Riding and/or Construction asap (probably after Writing). I`ve always wanted to do a War Elephant rush as they don`t have a clear counter until Catapults and Pikes start to turn up. I think we have a good chance of knocking down the front city of one of our neighbours with Catapults.
I can understand the frustration. And I'll note that if everyone does REX toward us (I observe that less than half the land tiles on the map have been claimed so far) we may indeed be able to establish a major military tech advantage over at least one of them in time to do something drastic about it, thanks in part to either Mids or Mid failgold. It may not come to that though:
(May 31st, 2019, 11:52)JR4 Wrote: We simply won`t have land to compete if Wetbandit does the same in the east.
Let's get some scouting done in that direction when we have the opportunity to see what we're actually up against, and where the best spot will be to establish a border we actually like that way. And of course if wetbandit does push toward us before we get the chance, we'll plan our Alternate Lurker-Friendly Expansion Plan accordingly.
Meanwhile, revising and expanding the microplan based on the new information and new city site you chose, we get the following, still tentative and subject to improvement and extension:
T67: Settler complete at Gower, which resumes its Spearman, working Pig + Fish + FP Cottage + FP Cottage. The Settler WAITS while units move into position to confirm the coast is clear (in the case of the Warrior moving that way) and/or move to the city site (in the case of a Spear in the area). THEN if it's safe, the Settler moves S-SE-NE-SE to the plains hill and we weep bitter tears about the jungle growth on that rice early on. Antiochus WHIPS its Worker (5 -> 3) and works Cow + Fish + Grass Cottage. Hesperides is now size 2 and works Rice + FP Cottage. The Workers on the Sugar begin a Farm. The Worker nearest Gower moves SE-NE to join them on the Sugar and helps to Farm. The Worker on the grass hill shared by Antiochus and Gower begins a mine. The Worker on the plains hill forest moves E-NE to a part-cottaged river grassland and resumes the Cottage. Increase science rate to 100%! T68: Worker and Spearman complete at Antiochus and Gower respectively. Gower is now size 5 and begins an Archer, working Pig + Fish + FP Cottage + FP Cottage + new grass cottage as the Worker on a river grassland tile it shares with Hesperedes completes that cottage. Antiochus starts another Worker, continuing to work Cow + Fish + Grass Cottage. Settler founds Thaliard in place on the plains hill. Thaliard begins a Granary and works the Sugar. Two of the Workers on the Sugar complete the Farm; the other one moves 1SW to the roaded plains hill and begins a Mine (UNLESS we feel it is important to be able to start a Chariot on T70; under this plan, we could still do so on T71 if desired, but at this point, I don't think we'll do so even then...). New Worker from Antiochus moves 1SW to a roaded part-mined grass hill and resumes the Mine.
T69: Hesperides is now size 3 and works Rice + FP Cottage + (unimproved) FP. Antiochus begins a Barracks (or an Archer if you prefer) (with its Worker on hold) and works Pig + Cow + Fish. Gower works Fish + All 4 Cottages. The Workers on the Sugar move SE-NE to the Horse and begin a Pasture. The Worker on a Cottage moves NE-SE to join another Worker on the roaded plains hill and helps with the Mine. Reduce science slider to 50%.
T70: Gower is now size 6. Antiochus is now size 4. Mine complete near Antiochus. One of the Workers on the plains hill between Gower, Hesperides, and Thaliard completes the Mine; the other moves NW-W to a part-roaded floodplain cottage and resumes the Road but then CANCELS orders! Horse Pasture complete. Gower works Fish + Mine + All 4 Cottages. Antiochus works Cow + Fish + Pig + Mine. Increase science slider to 70%. T71: Writing complete; tech Sailing(?) and set research slider to 0%. Hesperides is now size 4 and works Rice + FP Cottage + (unimproved) FP + Fur. The Worker on the mine near Antiochus moves S-SE to the roaded plains forest hill and begins a mine. The Worker on the three-way shared mine moves NW-W to a part-roaded floodplain cottage and completes the Road. The Worker already present on that tile moves 2SW to the plains forest hill and contributes to the Mine. The Workers on the Horse begin and complete a Road. Antiochus and Gower each begins a Library.
One of our Warriors made sure that no units can attack our Settler on the plains hill SE of Gower. Thus we look set to build our fifth city next turn. Maybe I overreacted just a bit last turn, we certainly could use some intelligence on the area E of our core. This map makes sure that there is a number of neighbours for everyone and the land grab phase still isn`t over. Let`s shuffle over some units eastwards and see how far Wetbandit has expanded. Our new city will reveal quite a few tiles.
So, let`s continue our big push for the mids while expanding wherever possible. We do have a decent amount of Workers and it`s good that we have enough of them to allow for improvement of our other cities as well (and that I didn`t ruin the carefully thought-out micro last turn!)
Gavadeath have Stone connected. They should be several turns behind us if they decide to pursue the Pyramids. I`m not too concerned about that. Our Scout might be about to reveal Donovan`s eastern neighbour next turn (which is likely Wetbandit).
Demos and graphs: The first screenshot shows our demos saving gold I think. We have a good lead while teching at max speed (which we do this turn). Food and production are both pretty average but we`re not far behind the leaders. Note that Wetbandit has a pretty impressing crop yield. We`ve caught up with the pack in power and have another Spear finishing this turn. We look extremely well equipped to handle a two mover attack! And defending against Axes is easier as we have more time to whip out Axes ourselves.
Our Settler founded Thaliard in place and revealed this:
Very interesting. Another barb city appeared SE of Thalliard which would be a very welcome addition to our Empire. It could easily turn into a race between us and BGN, though. We don`t have enough military to think about grabbing the city in question short term. We`ll need promoted Axes to capture it (assuming the barbs know Archery by now). We have three Spears running around so I`m confident about our defenses and soon we`ll get Horses.
We`re a mere 10 turns away from getting a coin flip at worst on the Pyramids. Did I mention that we still haven`t received a single fail gold coin over more than 500 turns worth of MP gaming? That`s obviously to some degree down to luck (or maybe the opposite?) but is still quite funny.
Our Scout found Wetbandit`s borders. He is indeed Donovan`s neighbour to the east.
(June 1st, 2019, 11:50)JR4 Wrote: Very interesting. Another barb city appeared SE of Thalliard which would be a very welcome addition to our Empire. It could easily turn into a race between us and BGN, though. We don`t have enough military to think about grabbing the city in question short term. We`ll need promoted Axes to capture it (assuming the barbs know Archery by now).
The plan is to check to make sure though, right? (E.g. by moving the Warrior 1SE to the jungle spices...) If that city is guarded by Warriors, we should swap some units around to get our (lone) axe heading in that direction ASAP, and even think about rushing another axe (or maybe getting one or more chariots on or soon after T72...) - that city in BGN/Cairo's hands would be a very bad thing, especially as we've been shut out of the barb city lottery too long already (partly because of our Farmer's Gambit opening, partly for reasons beyond our control.)
Onward with Micro Madness: The following plan assumes we see (one or more) Archers in the Barb city, that no forest grows on the one tile that would allow us (if it happened soon) to shave a turn off our time to the 'mids, and that nobody else completes the Pyramids before we do:
T69: Hesperides is now size 3 and works Rice + FP Cottage + Fur. Antiochus begins a Barracks (or an Archer if you prefer) (with its Worker on hold) and works Pig + Cow + Fish. Gower works Fish + All 4 Cottages. The Workers on the Sugar move SE-NE to the Horse and begin a Pasture. The Worker on a Cottage moves NE-SE to join another Worker on the roaded plains hill and helps with the Mine. Reduce science slider to 50%.
T70: Gower is now size 6. Antiochus is now size 4. Mine complete near Antiochus. One of the Workers on the plains hill between Gower, Hesperides, and Thaliard completes the Mine; the other moves NW-W to a part-roaded floodplain cottage and resumes the Road but then CANCELS orders! Horse Pasture complete. Gower works Fish + Mine + All 4 Cottages. Antiochus works Cow + Fish + Pig + Mine. Increase science slider to 70%. T71: Writing complete; tech Sailing(?) and set research slider to 0%. (I will ignore tech for purposes of this plan hereafter, but we might even want to do that in the real game for a little while to get better research multipliers into place, depending on our tech goals.) Hesperides is now size 4 and works Rice + FP Cottage + (unimproved) FP + Fur. The Worker on the mine near Antiochus moves S-SE to the roaded plains forest hill and begins a mine. The Worker on the three-way shared mine moves NW-W to a part-roaded floodplain cottage and completes the Road. The Worker already present on that tile moves 2SW to the plains forest hill and contributes to the Mine. The Workers on the Horse begin and complete a Road. Antiochus and Gower each begins a Library.
T72: Antiochus is now size 5 (and unhappy) and resumes its Worker (with Library and Barracks(?) on hold). It WHIPS the Worker (5 -> 3) and works Cow + Fish + Mine. Gower resumes its Archer (with Library on hold) and works Pig + Fish + All 4 Cottages and makes sure it controls the grass forest hill it shares with Antiochus. The Worker on the roaded floodplain cottage moves 2SE to the roaded plains forest hill and helps with the Mine there. The Workers on the Horse move is TBD, depending on where we plan to found our next city. T73: Worker complete at Antiochus, which resumes its Library (with Barracks(?) still on hold). Gower is now size 7 (and unhappy) and begins a Settler (with Archer and Library on hold) and works Pig + Fish + All 4 Cottages, with one Angry Citizen who eats no food while building a Settler, while making doubly sure it controls the grass forest hill it shares with Antiochus. Hesperides is now size 5 and works Rice + FP Cottage + Fur + both remaining (unimproved) FPs. Thaliard's borders expand to second ring, and it works the Horse. Mines complete (including chops for Gower and Tyre). Tyre works Pig + Copper + Plains Hill Mine + Plains Hill Mine, and makes sure it controls all the forests in its BFC. Note that the Axeman in Tyre's queue will now have begun to suffer from hammer decay, but this is expected and acceptable, being necessary to get the 'mids on time (since at the time we started the axe we felt we needed one available in the queue for an emergency whip). The axe will be completed in a few turns, having lost only 4h to decay. The remaining Worker on the plains hill mine moves 1NW to a roaded grass forest and begins a chop, but then CANCELS orders! The new Worker at Antiochus moves SW-S to the same forest and adds to the Chop, but then CANCELS orders! The remaining two Workers (near Thaliard) TBD as previously.
T74: Thaliard is now size 2 and works Sugar + Horse. Hesperides begins a Library (with its Archer on hold). One of the Workers near Tyre's plains hill mine moves SW-W to a grass hill forest. The other moves 2E to a river grassland tile and begins a Road but then CANCELS orders! One of the Workers on a roaded grass forest between Antiochus and Tyre moves 2SE to a plains forest; the other moves 1E to a part-chopped river grass forest and continues the chop, but then CANCELS orders! The Worker on the mine between Gower and Antiochus moves 1SE to a floodplains cottage and begins a Road, but then CANCELS orders! Gower WHIPS its Settler (7 -> 4) and works Pig + Fish + FP Cottage + FP Cottage. Antiochus begins a Settler and works Cow + Fish+ Cottage. The remaining two Workers (nearish to Thaliard) TBD as previously. T75: Settler complete at Gower, which resumes its Library (with its Archer still on hold). Hesperides is now size 6, but immediately WHIPS its Library (6 -> 3) and works Rice + FP Cottage + Fur. The Worker on the plains forest near Tyre and the Worker on the grass forest hill near Tyre each chop and then CANCEL orders! The Settler moves (TBD depending on the site of our next city). The worker on the roaded, part-chopped grass river forest begin a Cottage, but then CANCELS orders! The Worker on the river grassland near Hesperides moves 1NE and begins a Cottage, but then CANCELS orders! The Worker on the FP Cottage moves 1SE to a river grassland and begins a Cottage, but then CANCELS orders! T76: Library complete at Hesperides, which resumes its Archer. Gower is now size 5; it resumes its Archer (with its Library on hold) and works Pig + Fish + FP Cottage + FP Cottage + Grass Cottage (the one it shares with Hesperides). Antiochus resumes its Barracks (with Settler and Library on hold) and works Cow + Fish + Grass Cottage. Tyre resumes its Axeman and immediately WHIPS it (4 -> 3) and works Pig + Copper + Plains Hill Mine while making sure it still controls all the forest tiles in its BFC. The Workers on the plains forest and grass hill forest near Tyre continue their Chops but then CANCEL orders! The Worker on the grassland forest puts another turn into a Cottage, but then CANCELS orders! The Worker on the bare river grassland near Hesperides moves 1SW to a part-roaded river grassland and completes the Road. The Worker on the roaded river grasslnd near Gower moves 1S to the just-vacated bare river grassland and resumes building a Cottage there. Settler and remaining Workers TBD based on city location. T77: Axeman complete at Tyre, which resumes the Pyramids and makes ABSOLUTELY sure that it controls all the forests in its BFC! Gower is now size 6. Antiochus is now size 4 and resumes its Library, working Cow + Fish + grass cottage + (shared) Mine. Hesperides is now size 4 and works rice + FP Cottage + Fur + (unimproved) FP. The Worker on a roaded river grass forest moves 1W to a part-chopped roaded grass forest and completes the Chop. The Worker on a roaded river grassland near Hesperides moves NW-W to the just-vacated part-chopped roaded river grass forest and completes the Chop. The Workers on the grass forest hill and plains forest near Tyre complete their chops. The Worker on the river grassland between Gower and Hesperides completes a Cottage. Gower works Pig + Fish + Both FP Cottages + Both of the Grass Cottages it shares with Hesperides. Thaliard WHIPS its Granary (2 -> 1) and works the Horse. Settler (or new city by now) and remaining Workers do their TBD thing. T78: Pyramids complete! (at Tyre). Various Other Things.
But what if that Barb city is defended by just Warriors? In that case, I would suggest some changes to the plan, obviously not delaying the Pyramids, but changing our priorities elsewhere to improve our chances of taking that barb city. Here's a possible start to such a plan:
T69: Hesperides is now size 3 and works Rice + FP Cottage + (unimproved) FP. The Worker on the roaded grass hill near Antiochs moves SE-S to a roaded plains forest hill and begins a Mine. The Worker on the roaded plains hill shared by Gower, Hesperidess, and Thaliard moves NW-W to a part-roaded Floodplain cottage and resumess the Road, but then CANCELS orders! Antiochus begins a Barracks (or an Archer if you prefer) (with its Worker on hold) and works Pig + Cow + Fish. Gower works Fish + All 4 Cottages. Spearman on the Copper moves SW-W to Tyre. Axeman from Tyre moves E-NE to the Copper. The Workers on the Sugar move SE-NE to the Horse and begin and complete a Road. The Worker on a grass cottage moves W-SW to join another Worker on the roaded plains hill forest and helps with the Mine. Reduce science slider to 50%.
T70: Gower is now size 6. Antiochus is now size 4. Axeman moves SE-NE to the Furs. The Worker on the part-roaded floodplain cottage moves 2SW to join two other Workers on a roaded plains hill forest, and all three continue the Mine, but then CANCEL orders! The Workers on the Horse begin a Pasture. Gower works Fish + Pig + All 4 Cottages and starts a Settler (with the Archer on hold). Antiochus resumes its Worker (with Barracks on hold) and then WHIPS the Worker (4 -> 2) and works Cow + Fish. Increase science slider to 70%. T71: Writing complete; Worker complete at Antiochus; tech Sailing(?) and set research slider to 0%. Hesperides is now size 4 and works Rice + FP Cottage + (unimproved) FP + Fur. Two of the Workers on the roaded plains forest hill move N-NW to a roaded part-mined grass hill and complete the mine; the other continues the mine, but then CANCELS orders! The new Worker from Antiochus moves SE-E to a part-roaded floodplain cottage and completes the Road. Horse Pasture complete. Antiochus builds a Chariot and works Cow + Mine. T72: Chariot complete at Antiochus. The Chariot moves 3SE to the Furs. The Axeman moves 2SE to the jungle Rice, shedding a single tear as it does so. Etc.
The plan is indeed to have our Warrior have a look at the defenses of the barb city next turn. I agree that we should send down units to make sure that BGN doesn`t get any ideas. But he already knows about the existence of that city and might be making plans to seize it before us. If - and that`s a big if - BGN decides to do that I`d consider whipping out some Axes to try and capture it from him. Let`s send our lone Axe next turn and add as many units as needed. That`s our territory. Another thing to consider is if the barb city has grown to size 2. I like that spot and if (for any reason) is razed we could consider rebuilding it on that very spot.
We could get lucky with a random forest spread but t78 Pyramids isn`t that far away anymore. At worst we`re getting a huge stockpile of gold which is increasing by the turn. It looks like we`ll have plenty of Worker support going with this micro plan. Our next Settler will finish t75. I`d like to get out another Settler shortly after that but we have so many competing priorities (like getting up Libraries in our core cities and building an actual military).
(June 2nd, 2019, 11:04)BaII Wrote: If we do take that barb city we should keep an eye on BGN just because it is a bit exposed even being on a hill tile.
Agreed. We don`t know much about the intentions of BGN (or if he`s boxed in just like us) but we should assume that he`ll make a play for the barb city. I don`t think we can afford giving up more contested territory and we`ll likely build more units in the coming turns to give us a good chance of locking BGN (and others for that matter) out of the area. The city itself might be on the same sea as BGN`s core and thus vulnerable to boating even if we get it but that`s a problem 70 turns from now or so. At least any Greek units moving by land will have to move north of that peak and there is some rough terrain between YeeHawdists and the barb city. That`s something I guess.
(June 2nd, 2019, 06:05)JR4 Wrote: It looks like we`ll have plenty of Worker support going with this micro plan. Our next Settler will finish t75. I`d like to get out another Settler shortly after that but we have so many competing priorities (like getting up Libraries in our core cities and building an actual military).
Well, we can also look at some alternatives for faster expansion (still with T78 'mids) by working fewer cottages in the next few turns. First, if the barb city is defended by Warriors: (Note that in case this happens, if we want to follow this plan or anything like it, we should make sure all of our Workers have canceled their actions at the start of our T69, then check the barb city with our Warrior before deciding how to continue with them....)
The following would allow us, if needed or desired, to attack the barb city on T75 with two axes, a chariot, and a Warrior, and could produce a Settler as soon as T74. [EDIT: Of course, we won't want to actually attack the barb city that soon if it's still at size 1 by then. Hopefully that won't be the case....]
T69: Hesperides is now size 3 and works Rice + FP Cottage + (unimproved) FP. The Worker on the roaded grass hill near Antiochus moves SE-S to a roaded plains forest hill and begins a Mine. The Worker on the roaded plains hill shared by Gower, Hesperidess, and Thaliard moves NW-NE to a bare plains tile and begins a Road. Antiochus begins a Barracks (or an Archer if you prefer) (with its Worker on hold) and works Pig + Cow + Fish. Gower begins an Axeman (with Archer on hold) and works Fish + All 4 Cottages. Spearman on the Copper moves SW-W to Tyre. Axeman from Tyre moves E-NE to the Copper. The Workers on the Sugar move SE-NE to the Horse and begin and complete a Road. The Worker on a grass cottage moves W-SW to join another Worker on the roaded plains hill forest and helps with the Mine. The Worker on the grass forest hill shared by Gower and Antiochus continues to Mine. Reduce science slider to 50%.
T70: Gower is now size 6. Antiochus is now size 4. Axeman moves SE-NE to the Furs. The Worker nearest Gower completes a Road. The Workers on the Horse begin a Pasture. Gower WHIPS its Axeman (6 -> 4) and works Fish + Pig + Both FP Cottages. Antiochus resumes its Worker (with Barracks on hold) and then WHIPS the Worker (4 -> 2) and works Cow + Fish. The Workers on the roaded plains hill forest put another turn into a Mine, but then CANCEL orders! Increase science slider to 80%. T71: Writing complete; Axeman and Worker complete at Gower and Antiochus, respectively; tech Sailing(?) and set research slider to 0%. Gower is now size 5; it begins a Settler (with Archer still on hold) and works Pig + Fish + Both FP Cottages + Sugar. Hesperides is now size 4 and works Rice + FP Cottage + (unimproved) FP + Fur. The Workers on the roaded plains forest hill moves N-NW to a roaded part-mined grass hill and complete the mine. The new Worker from Antiochus moves SE-E to a part-roaded . Horse Pasture complete. Antiochus builds a Chariot and works Cow + Mine. Thaliard works the Horse. The Worker nearest Gower moves SE-SW to a roaded part-mined plains hill and resumes the Mine. T72: Chariot complete at Antiochus. The Chariot moves 3SE to the Furs. Both Axeman moves 2SE to the jungle Rice, shedding a single tear as they do so for the impact this lone jungle growth has had on our empire. (More later...)
If there are archers in the barb city, we could instead do something like this to produce our next Settler T74 with a healthy start on either the next one or a Library, while working more cottages than in the plan just above, and putting more hammers into Libraries, fewer into units:
T69: Hesperides is now size 3 and works Rice + FP Cottage + Fur. Antiochus begins a Barracks (or an Archer if you prefer) (with its Worker on hold) and works Pig + Cow + Fish. Gower works Fish + All 4 Cottages. The Workers on the Sugar move SE-NE to the Horse and begin a Pasture. The Worker on a Cottage moves NE-SE to join another Worker on the roaded plains hill and helps with the Mine. The Worker on the grass forest hill shared by Gower and Antiochus continues to Mine. Reduce science slider to 50%.
T70: Gower is now size 6. Antiochus is now size 4. Mine complete near Antiochus. One of the Workers on the plains hill between Gower, Hesperides, and Thaliard completes the Mine; the other moves NW-W to a part-roaded floodplain cottage and resumes the Road but then CANCELS orders! Horse Pasture complete. Gower begins a Settler (with its Archer on hold) and works Fish + Mine + All 4 Cottages. Antiochus works Cow + Fish + Pig + Mine. Increase science slider to 70%. (More later....)
Or of course we could use one of the earlier microplans. Do we know yet where our next city is going to go?
We are following the first new micro plan, giving us a bit more production at the expense of some commerce.
The barb city SE of Thaliard is defended.... by a single Warrior. It certainly looks like someone is waiting for the city to grow before capturing it. The two main suspects are BGN and Wetbandit. As I already mentioned I think that someone else grabbing that city right in front of us is pretty much equal to a war declaration. We have an Axe underway (but it`s a slow walk) and another one under training in Gower.
On the second screenshot you can see a Chariot so Gavadeath have Horses connected already. We do have Spears in place in our border cities (and why would you show a Chariot if you want to attack anyway?)
