RBPB3 - Gandhi of the Egyptians

[Krill]

2S of the corn, and one of Confu, Christiantity or Hindu. Probably the last, but not 100% decided yet.

[Speaker]

Actually no, I prefer competent map makers, then the map generator with an overseer (RB PBEM2...), and then map makers in general. I suppose I just don't like how Sullla designs maps - but I agree with alot of his comments on the Poly DG map, that was horrendous. The map maker needs to make sure each team isn't screwed on food and strat resources. I don't think Sullla ever does the former except at the capital, and I've heard complaints from alot of teams about the latter here (England with copper, my copper has no food, Portugal and horse, Koreas' copper didn't look good).

I suppose I just want maps that have too much food like RBPB2, and have an intriguing land layout. A 17 player game would have needed a hand crafted map, to the extent of messing around in the mapscript python.

Multiple other players vetted the map Sullla made for this game, so I think your complaints are misguided.

[Krill]

Multiple other players vetted the map Sullla made for this game, so I think your complaints are misguided.

If you reread my post, the only point I made about RBPB3 was the strat resources. I didn't say they were justified, just that the complaints exist.

But to quote what England just told me: "If I needed copper, I'd be dead now. Because I moved 1SE on T0." My copper has zero food. If either of us needed copper early on, we would not be competitive - is this balanced?

Also, another one, Babylon doesn't have horse. England is giving them their only horse atm. I had to gift horse to Portugal horse...

Look, I don't know enough about this map to know for sure, but that the complaints exist from multiple teams, not just me, is an interesting fact that can't be brushed under the carpet. That multiple people vetted the map doesn't automatically mean that every mistake was caught.

I think everything else I posted was just my opinion on the map making process, so I take it you weren't attacking that?

[Sullla]

Krill, you never like the maps I make, so why should this one be any different? Please forgive me for not ensuring that there's a food bonus next to every strategic resource on a 4000+ tile map.

I'm just glancing at your screenshot, and I see sheep + horses at your second city (on a river, on a plains hill tile no less!) and an iron resource that very easily could have been grabbed by a city with sheep (NE) or wheat (S) to provide food. Sure, the copper doesn't have a food bonus next to it, but that's hardly the sign of a poorly designed map, that one of the initial three strategic resources doesn't have a big food bonus next to it. All of your early cities have multiple food resources - they don't look to be hurting to me.

You have horses 3 tiles from the capital, copper 4 tiles, and iron 4 tiles away. If you're gonna complain about that... well, I dunno what to say! Hard to get much more friendly than that. :neenernee

I actually think this map came out pretty good. If you want to blame anyone, blame the other players for insisting on Emperor difficulty, which cripples research rates with high maintenance costs. Not every map needs to be disgustingly over-fertile like Pitboss #2.

Also, thanks for once again calling me a "not competent" map maker. I always appreciate that...

[Krill]

Krill, you never like the maps I make, so why should this one be any different? Please forgive me for not ensuring that there's a food bonus next to every strategic resource on a 4000+ tile map.

Oh my, the hyperbole machine is again in fine form. You really need to consider downsizing it Sullla. It's blocking your ego.

*shrug* Already lost 1 civ to a chariot rush, perhaps 2 if you consider France, and those were late. If I had had to settle that copper city early, I would be stuck with an uneconomic city, that was basically eating resources and giving nothing in return except the copper.

Again, is that balanced?

I'm just glancing at your screenshot, and I see sheep + horses at your second city (on a river, on a plains hill tile no less!) and an iron resource that very easily could have been grabbed by a city with sheep (NE) or wheat (S) to provide food. Sure, the copper doesn't have a food bonus next to it, but that's hardly the sign of a poorly designed map, that one of the initial three strategic resources doesn't have a big food bonus next to it. All of your early cities have multiple food resources - they don't look to be hurting to me.

Unirrigated wheat. Hill sheep. These are 4 food tiles - it's basically a single flood plain. Not irrigated corn, fish, or pigs, but 4 food tiles. The civs either side of the desert got a lot more food, which is something other players have pointed out.

You have horses 3 tiles from the capital, copper 4 tiles, and iron 4 tiles away. If you're gonna complain about that... well, I dunno what to say! Hard to get much more friendly than that. :neenernee

To quote an Apolyton poster, you need to improve your reading comprehension. I haven't complained about any of those, but nice try with the smudging. Tard.

I actually think this map came out pretty good. If you want to blame anyone, blame the other players for insisting on Emperor difficulty, which cripples research rates with high maintenance costs. Not every map needs to be disgustingly over-fertile like Pitboss #2.[quote]

3 points:

1. You are a map maker. You make a map that fits what the players want, so blaming the players for choosing Emperor as opposed to Monarch is passing the buck.
   
   
   
2. Toroidal was your call, after you knew Emperor had been decided, so ultimately, the effect that has on the game is your responsibility, not the players.
   
   
   
3. You are comparing a map that was designed for an NTT game, with one that was designed for TT enabled? You do see the fallacy in that, right?

[quote]Also, thanks for once again calling me a "not competent" map maker. I always appreciate that...

Yeah, I don't like how you balance maps. Get over it.

[Krill]

Currency is in, gifted away most of my 580 gold...wouldn;t have been good to be seen with all of that, after basically saving since I finished Mono.

[Krill]

OK, change of plan...I'm going to Pacifism next turn for 8 turns, and running 3 preists in AM to get the Shrine up and running asap. I have religion spread to every city already, and AP is due end of turn. I'm keeping an eye out on the power graph, and Carthage have a unit next to Ottomans front city, so I'm getting out sentries now as it is safe (and it takes them a while to get into position).

England thinks Ottomans are going for the pyramids...they do have the HG, but not MC, so muct be building it. I'm wondering if I can persuade England or Mali to build the Pyramids instead.

[Krill]

And another change of plan. Revolted to Bureucray and OR, to get out HE in a further 5 turns, and then revolt to Theo. I went to Bureau early becuse we needed the gold to keep the techers going, and losing Pacifism only delays the shrine by a single turn, so it is a net increase in the gold made I think, but not by much. Not going to say no to the extra gold though.

And this is why I like Spi.

[Krill]

:bored:



HE is down in Lancre, currently doing 1 turn WC and then 1 turn cats/LB (or 1 turn pikes with 3 hammers overflow). Nice city at size 9.

Expecting attack from Ottomans and India, and trying to get Babylon and Maya to go after Byz. Going to die?No chance. Going to get Crippled? Maybe. All depends on Carthage getting the road and army in place to kill the Otto stack iMO.

(12:54:24 AM) Carthage: what do your defenses look like in Lancre, btw?
(12:55:11 AM) Krill: Currently/
(12:55:14 AM) Krill: Pretty naf
(12:55:46 AM) Krill: in that picture you see,I have the sign Bad Ass for my next city, which I plan to plant to force Ottomans towards
(12:56:12 AM) Krill: I have something like 2 LB, 4WC, 2 cats and 2 spears in the area
(12:56:20 AM) Krill: and making 1 unit a turn from Lancre
(12:56:40 AM) Krill: in 5 turns time I'll have another 2 cats and about 10 WC in the area
(12:56:57 AM) Krill: all WC will be minimum 2 promo
(12:57:21 AM) Krill: so I'll have a fair few shock WC
(12:57:25 AM) Krill: against maces
(12:57:29 AM) Krill: that have been catted
(12:57:35 AM) Carthage: seems like pretty good defenses
(12:57:37 AM) Krill: and have LB to throw at the stronger ones
(12:57:40 AM) Krill: yup
(12:57:54 AM) Krill: It's just hte 25 unit HA stack from InidaI'll have to deal wiith

[Krill]

Pic dump. The next 10 turns should have a large bearing on where we go with the game.

However, I don't have an awful lot left in the tank, but can I stop 30 HA? Once I get pikes, I can't see why not. It takes at least 3 HA to kill one pike in stack combat, and I can easily make that by the time a stack hits the important cities, plus I'm going to have alot of WC to pack out each city as needed or kill splinter stacks.

What do I really want to happen? I'd love it if India chickened out and returned the HA to those that gifted them.

PS. Also have a 5XP WC heading up to Indias' southern city, planning on placing a sentry underneath the Guerilla 2 LB so I can see to the row of tiles directly south of the city. Good luck trying to sneak past that!