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Dr. Nomadic Wrote:Never too late to start making new rules to prevent this kind of stuff from happening. We voted for rules before the game started, including rules on gifting cities. You shouldn't be changing those rules in middle of the game just because you happened to get the short end of the stick.
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Jowy Wrote:We voted for rules before the game started, including rules on gifting cities. You shouldn't be changing those rules in middle of the game just because you happened to get the short end of the stick.
Jowy, sorry for being very frank here, but I am not at all surprised that you defend the cheese gifting of cities!
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind
- Mohandas Karamchand "Mahatma" Gandhi, 1869-1948.
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Jowy Wrote:We voted for rules before the game started, including rules on gifting cities. You shouldn't be changing those rules in middle of the game just because you happened to get the short end of the stick.
IMO, all rules in an RB game should be supplemented by and interpreted consistently with long-standing RB principles, including playing a game to your fullest effort even in the face of tough odds and not making cheese moves. Suiciding troops and city gifting when facing elimination would squarely violate both of those.
RBP2: globally lurking
RBP3: globally lurking
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Ok, let's take this one to the lurker thread.
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I guess I don't fault teams for doing anything and everything allowed within the rules. That said, Whosit's gifting of cities to Nakor to prevent other teams from capturing them is without question a cheese move, and done in poor spirit. And yes, your own action was also a sign of poor sportsmanship, Jowy. Not trying to raise the spectre of old conflicts here, but that's how I see it.
On the plus side, it's another team dead and gone. Gonna run out of teams to gift cities to pretty soon. The alliance of four is now an alliance of two. 
I had a little more time to look at some of the information from the game. Dantski and plako both discovered Paper tech near-simultaneously, which is kind of strange. Maybe they're both going for Optics (?) That's all on the tech front in the past two turns, other than us discovering Education and Nakor landing the big Liberalism slingshot. The current overall count:
Total Beakers
Nakor: 13,117
Killer Angels: 12,050
plako: 7960
Dantski: 6808
Kathlete: 6334
Whosit: 5601
slaze: 4582
There's pretty clearly three tiers of tech progress: Nakor and our team, then a big dropoff to Korea/Dantski/Kathlete, and then two laggards who are way behind the rest. Soon we'll likely be down to just five viable teams: ourselves, Kathlete, Nakor, plako, and Dantski. Hopefully that will be a 3 vs 2 favoring our side!
I went back to the old C&D work to try and find out where Nakor is building Taj Mahal. There are only three viable candidates based on shields already in the box:
Krondor (137 shields)
Queg (90 shields)
Rolan (69 shields)
It's near certain that Krondor is the location where Taj is under construction. This city can only get 15 base shields/turn (38 shields/turn with multipliers), but there are some forests south of the city that could be chopped. I'll be able to watch the city over the next couple turns and figure out an ETA for the wonder, see if we have a realistic chance to steal it. I think we can if we can get any extra gold from plako or Dantski.
Right now, however, they aren't being much help:
Quote:Hi KA's
A swap is certainly possible, a shrine for Judaism would be of exceptional value to you so would it be possible to get a little more than 1 great person in exchange? I know I was planning on settling the silver city on the middle island which you got to 2-3 turns before me is that tradable? If not a scientist + something else works.
Also assuming you'd be spreading Judaism in some of my cities soon.
-Dantski
Uhh, no. Guess again, Dantski.  We might be willing to trade a Great Person, ONE Great Person, for a Prophet but that's all. Don't think we'll be taking him up on that.
Korea:
Quote:Dear Killer Angels,
Our deal with HRE only included the mainland cities since we don't have realistic chances to capture cities on the
central island without a city by the inner sea.
I'll need to discuss about the gold transfer with Broker, but in general our economy isn't doing that well at the moment. We can return Knights and we can probably loan gold for some time without intrest, but I'm afraid that really paying for Knights with gold would be too much of a burden to us.
Kind regards,
plako
Disappointing on two counts, for not including the island cities in their deal with Nakor (could have told us that!), and again for not paying us for the knights. But they did offer us an interest-free loan, which was a nice gesture, and it sounds like they'll be returning the knights to us. Cool.
We need to see how fast Nakor is building Taj, and then we can let them know how much gold (if any) we need to borrow. Overall, despite a lot of annoying stuff, game is going pretty well for us right now. #1 in all Demographics tends to do that. 
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Waiting again for one team to end its turn. I'll give you one guess who it is...
"There is no wealth like knowledge. No poverty like ignorance."
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While we wait for "one team"  to end their turn, here's an interesting email message we received from Dantski yesterday:
Quote:korea, slaze, whosit and myself received this email:
Hi Korea and Mali,
We of HRE like to ask a moment of your time.
As you surely have seen, we were the first to discover Liberalism.
We took Nationalism as our free tech in the hope of building Taj Mahal.
I'm sure that's nothing new under the sun.
While we are currently buidling Taj Mahal, we fear that India might beat us to it.
They have to research Philosophy (2t) and Nationalism (?t) but just got a Great Engineer to rush Taj Mahal.
We of HRE would be very unhappy about such an event, but there's not much we can do about it.
We'll do our best to build Taj Mahal before India can rushbuild it with their GE but fear that we won't be able to beat them.
Therefore we thought it best to tell you about this situation.
We sincerely believe that a free Golden Age for India due to Tah Mahal would make their win a certainty.
No one of us can outtech them and they play the game extremely well, as would be expected.
In our eyes, the only way to prevent this free Golden Age for India from happening is if they can't maintain their current reseach pace.
I don't know if you guys are funding Indian reseach at this point in time, but we would like to ask you to reconsider if that is the case.
We don't want this game to be over now and only play for a second place.
Of course there is more we could do to stop India, but from our perspective this is a thing we should ask of you guys.
Anyway, thanks for your time reading this.
We hope to hear from you soon.
Nakor for HRE
Thought this may be useful information to you
-Dantski
So Nakor is again trying to go behind our back and sow as much fear, uncertainty, and doubt amongst the other teams. What a guy, eh? Keep in mind that Nakor is the one who constantly wants to sign NAPs with our team, and sends us friendly messages of cooperation every week. Not exactly countering that weasel image I've posted on before...
The good news is that our friends don't seem to be buying any of this nonsense, which is good because Nakor has consistently been hostile to Dantski and plako. Don't forget either that Nakor has sold out his allies twice already:
- He lied to us and stabbed us in the back during the 5 vs 1 war.
- He did absolutely nothing to save Whosit despite their "Mutual Protection Pact".
What a friend! Gee, I'm sure Dantski and plako can't wait to line up and become his new buddies!
Dantski forwarded us the message, and we thanked him for sharing the info. Korea has already decided to assist us too:
Quote:Plako and I had that same discussion and we intend to help you. When you can get an exact number [for Taj] let us know and we can figure out an equitable solution. We appriciate your help in the past.
Those are good guys.
We also got this totally random message from Kathlete this morning:
Quote:Greetings KA,
It's possible I've been under diplomatic cross-fire with Slaze since his
choice to return to the game. Whateve he is saying just remember
there's always 2 sides to the story. I didn't break any promises or
deals with him, but from any point of view my 2nd attack on him was a
complete surprise to him and a pretty immoral move on my part.
Regardless the Inca have never really been a friend to the Rebels and
I would make the same decision over again if I had to.
I will honour any deal I make with the Killer Angels and look forward
to continued friendly relations.
Athlete
The Rebel Alliance
Umm, what?  Guess we missed out on a message from slaze that Kathlete thought we received. Speaker, I think we should write back and just state that we honor our obligations and have no intention of breaking our NAP. Course, what happens after that is another story entirely.
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Just wondering what would you do in Korea's or Mali's place in the Taj Mahal situation?
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Sullla Wrote:So Nakor is again trying to go behind our back and sow as much fear, uncertainty, and doubt amongst the other teams. What a guy, eh? Keep in mind that Nakor is the one who constantly wants to sign NAPs with our team, and sends us friendly messages of cooperation every week. Not exactly countering that weasel image I've posted on before...
The game would be so much more interesting if your opponents weren't playing to win. 
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VoiceOfUnreason Wrote:The game would be so much more interesting if your opponents weren't playing to win. Last I checked, we've been playing to win, but not playing like jerks.
Jowy Wrote:Just wondering what would you do in Korea's or Mali's place in the Taj Mahal situation? Trick question. I wouldn't be in their place. 
"There is no wealth like knowledge. No poverty like ignorance."
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