Adv 44, Timmy

[Ruff_Hi]

Thanks for the report timmy ... and nice job on your quick victory.

I prefer cats to bomb down defenses (esp accuracy cats) and trebs attacking. Barrage 1 on a treb is totally worth less ... collateral damage = 4 * 1.2 = 4.8 rounded down to 4.0 ... sigh.

[pocketbeetle]

Interesting points, thanks for the clarification guys!

[T-hawk]

I prefer cats to bomb down defenses (esp accuracy cats) and trebs attacking. Barrage 1 on a treb is totally worth less ... collateral damage = 4 * 1.2 = 4.8 rounded down to 4.0 ... sigh.

I believe this was fixed in one of the recent BTS patches.

[60 seconds of worldbuilder testing]

Yes. A rookie treb collaterals a knight to 94 HP (9.4/10 health.) A Barrage 1 treb collaterals a knight to 93 HP (9.3/10 health.)

[T-hawk]

When I say cats are twice as good I was talking in collateral terms, 5 strength vs. 4 and cheaper hammer cost (50 vs. 80); you get 1 "strength" collateral for 10 hammers instead of 20.

What this misses is the survival rate of trebs. Yes, suicide cats are much cheaper in collateral-per-hammer. But trebs don't have to be suicidal. If a treb's city attack bonus allows it to survive the fight to deal collateral again, then it has become equal to the cat. A third fight puts it ahead.

Usually the question is moot - just use both units at what they do best, suicide a cat or two and then use CR trebs. But in this game, having to pick one or the other, I was a fair bit happier with the trebs than with catapults against longbows.

[timmy827]

What this misses is the survival rate of trebs. Yes, suicide cats are much cheaper in collateral-per-hammer. But trebs don't have to be suicidal. If a treb's city attack bonus allows it to survive the fight to deal collateral again, then it has become equal to the cat. A third fight puts it ahead.

Usually the question is moot - just use both units at what they do best, suicide a cat or two and then use CR trebs. But in this game, having to pick one or the other, I was a fair bit happier with the trebs than with catapults against longbows.

Sure, that seems like a fine thing for normal game. I guess my best summary take is that trebs are nice to have but not a crucial military innovation like cats and cannons are; if I can hit an enemy with maces/cats or even phants/cats I don't feel like Engineering for trebs is a particularly strong research choice.

Of course the winning strategy for this game is to not have the RNG screw you over, and finish in 700AD. What are these "longbows" you speak of? :neenernee

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I believe this was fixed in one of the recent BTS patches.

3.19. It changed the effect of Barrage from a collateral strength modifier to a collateral damage modifier.

[BobRoberts]

That was a nicely done!

We played quite similar games, but you were quicker!


Likewise, I stuck with Cats for this game, mostly due to the variant restriction. Personally prefer to mix the 2 units normally - use trebs if the retreat odds are 40-60+%. Otherwise suicide cat time.

Personally I feel the critical factor with artillery is the 5xp mark... Really like to churn them from an HE city with settled GG or mass produce under theocracy.