[spoilers] AT makes a funny thread title

[RefSteel]

There may be a settler race for a spot down south there.

At what point do I have to respect a turn split?

Theoretically, as soon as you know you're in a settler race. So, since you saw superdeath's settler by T95 (when superdeath played before you) and superdeath didn't see yours when he played a double turn to end T94 and begin T95 (after all, your Settler hadn't even been produced yet, so how could he have known?) I think a strict reading of the rule would give him the right to plant first on T98 if it plays out as you describe, even though you've mostly been playing before him lately except when (as on T94-5) he rolls the turn. Of course, it looks to me from PBSpy like you've now played T96 before him and he played and didn't settle on that turn, and that would be annoying to reload. Probably the best thing to do now is to let him play T97 before you, and then if he still hasn't settled, let him play T98 before you too. (Note I'm not an arbiter though; I'm just a lurker trying to figure out the right thing to do.)

There could be a counter-argument if he could have been reasonably expected to know about the possible settler race by the time he played T95 (as a double move with T94) - for instance if he could see Workers roading to the site for you by the time he finished his T94 moves or something.

Of course, it'll all be irrelevant if he settles somewhere T97 or sends the Settler in some direction that doesn't conflict with your intended site.

[AutomatedTeller]

There may be a settler race for a spot down south there.

At what point do I have to respect a turn split?

Theoretically, as soon as you know you're in a settler race.  So, since you saw superdeath's settler by T95 (when superdeath played before you) and superdeath didn't see yours when he played a double turn to end T94 and begin T95 (after all, your Settler hadn't even been produced yet, so how could he have known?) I think a strict reading of the rule would give him the right to plant first on T98 if it plays out as you describe, even though you've mostly been playing before him lately except when (as on T94-5) he rolls the turn.  Of course, it looks to me from PBSpy like you've now played T96 before him and he played and didn't settle on that turn, and that would be annoying to reload.  Probably the best thing to do now is to let him play T97 before you, and then if he still hasn't settled, let him play T98 before you too.  (Note I'm not an arbiter though; I'm just a lurker trying to figure out the right thing to do.)

There could be a counter-argument if he could have been reasonably expected to know about the possible settler race by the time he played T95 (as a double move with T94) - for instance if he could see Workers roading to the site for you by the time he finished his T94 moves or something.

Of course, it'll all be irrelevant if he settles somewhere T97 or sends the Settler in some direction that doesn't conflict with your intended site.

Thanks.  That's kind of what I had thought.   I had already decided not to contest the site, which is why I didn't worry about playing first.   Mainly because if he was going that way and I went first, he could just settle a yellow site pretty easily.    And if he did settle a red site, it would be pretty easy for me to take. 

He headed south to the clam site, which makes a lot of sense.  clam, copper, 3 FP is a nice site.   This game may have gone differently if Ruff had sent his 1st settler  that way.

[AutomatedTeller]

Turn 97


Countdowns

1 turn to shrine
6 turns to ironworking.   I don't know what the effect of 2 new cities, a shrine and 2 scientists will be on that, though.  My guess is that I'll drop to about 4 turns, but it will be interesting.  

Current events:

I found out why MrCairo didn't put Stonehenge in RocketLauncher.  He was building Hanging Gardens there instead.  

This makes for a problem for MorningEdition, though fortunately that popped borders, so should at least not lose the connecting tile.   I may not ever get the forest back, which kind of sucks.

Krill pop whipped 3 cities, I assume with altars.  I kind of need to get CoL soon, I think.  Among all the other things I need

Plans

I have 4 spots.  The brown horse spot with no food goes down turn 98.  The northern FP/ivory spot goes down turn 100.  OnPoint is going to 4 turn 2 more setters, for the blue and green fillers, so those will be down by about turn 110.  It will build walls/terrace/temple and grow very slowly

I have pretty much decided that I'm going to give a shot at a silver city on the souther island (popcorn for the lurkers)  There is a lot of planning to do and it might go horribly wrong.  I'll do a longer post about that plan later... you know, once I have it

[AutomatedTeller]

Turn 98


SHRINE!!!

Countdowns
Ironworking 3
Currency is 8-10 after that - might run a lot of citizen specialist to crank up research.
City #11 (crab/ivory/fp) 2
City #12 (island silver) 6-10 turns.  Not sure

RadioLab, my 10th city.



No food, but it's A) on a hill and B) can work the gold so Waitwait and OnlyAGame can grow.  Will get Walls chopped in and then a terrace - along with religion, it will allow the city
to keep it's tiles - SD will worry about his FP and I'll probably steal a couple for a little while, but once his borders pop, he'll take them back quickly.

breakeven is around 30-40% now, but the thing about pyramids is that it lets you run representation, so even just a citizen is a mighty help with research.


That said, Currency ,CoL and a 3rd island city are clear priorities after IronWorking

Demos/power


2nd in soldiers.   Might go up with ironworking



Changes to expenses

Before settling and shrining:



After settling and shrining:

Clearly need currency, for the 3rd trade route and for markets.  CarTalk, WaitWait, DeliciousDish, certainly.  Not sure where else.

A note: my GPT looks awesome at 149, but 45+ of that is culture. That said, MrCairo's GPT is inflated by at least 40 culture, mainly driven by wonders.

[AutomatedTeller]

Turn 99 - 2 for today

Countdowns

1 turn to new city
2 turns to iron working.

MrCairo did a bunch of whipping.

Not a very interesting turn.

I am guessing I have an iron over in the desert by delicious dish.  I think there's a chance I have one down by RadioLab that should have been Ruffs.  Pretty sure I have his horse.

It's possible that his iron is on the frozen island, which might mean I have it.

[AutomatedTeller]

Turn 100 brain dump

Countdowns:

Iron Working 1
South Island city 9
Currency 7-9

Opponents

MrCairo
8 cities
4 wonders
Math
Metal Casting
Priesthood
Sailing
Does not have alphabet or currency
Masonry

GKC
3 cities, pretty much checked out as far as I can tell
masonry

Krill
7 cities
Gems,no stone
Monotheism, no alpha or currency
Masonry
I assume iron working and Math

SD
8 cities.  
No marble, no stone.  Probably has not researched masonry yet.
HBR
Alpha
Currency
Dunno if he has math or not.

No one is showing iron yet.

Cities

This is turning into a research hub, running cottages and scientists.   Bulding religious stuff now, market once currency comes in.



Waitwait will get a market at some point, but will make a few one promo archers for the southern island and some elephants.   I suspect MrCairo might be going for machinery and crossbows and I need a counter.
 

I have been unable to decide what to do with DeliciousDish, but it definitely needs a library soon

 

Military.  Main military pump.  Needs to grow.


 

Military pump for a long time.  WIll get a courthouse when CoL comes in.  At some point, I'll sneak in a lighthouse and let it grow.  Maybe.  

 

Also military.  Needs a rax


 

I think this will get a library and run specialists.  I had it building a chariot for reasons I can't recreate now.

 

Similar to fresh air, though will likely end up better, since it has 2 food, not 1 and 1 it shares.  and, if the game goes that long, I can make watermills on the river.  
 

The main reason for this is to A)  open up a way into SD and B) protect my southern border.  This may make a wierd culture war.

 

All military, all the time, once terrace, lighthouse and rax are in.  Not a ton of food, but hills, ivory and horse.

Demos/graphs

You can see when krill got sac altars.


Stuff I've built:

[AutomatedTeller]

Oh - some insight?   Not just a bunch of screen dumps?  Lurkers are so demanding.

I feel pretty good about this game.    I mean, Imp/Inca should win the land grab phase - I feel like I'm right where I should be.

Some of this is land - I mean, I pumped out 3 settlers which had, between them, 1 exclusive food resource in their starting 9 squares, but got away with it because of the grass oasis.  And some of it is SD distracitng Ruff.  I absolutely would not have MorningEdition, TinyDesk or RadioLab if SD had not attacked Ruff.

But landing Pyramids is a really big deal for a spiritual civ and the great lighthouse and the shrine are huge for an imp civ.   Having more cities is a big deal for an imp civ, but almost more important is getting them faster and grabbing the best land, as well. 

that said, I still have to manage the rest of the game - go on the offense somewhere, pretty soon, because I can't build libs and markets as fast as the others.

[AutomatedTeller]

Some thoughts on culture border wars:

There are 3 places where there are disputed borders 

MorningEdition

RocketLauncher hit 100 culture a couple of turns ago.  Thus, the tiles bordering MorningEdition are under cultural pressure.



The two in green are lost - no way do I get them back.  
The red is one I should not lose.  There is no way he'll get enough culture on that before I put an overwhelming amount.
The yellow one I dunno - I might get that back.  It depends a lot on a lot if I get to 100 before he gets to 500.  and if so, how long in advance it is.
Right now, I'd say its 50/50 that I get it and keep it

RocketLauncher has a religion, totem pole, a library and the HangingGardens, for 8 (or 9, if the pole has popped)

That means he gets from 100-500 in about 50 turns.  I have to get from 10 to 100 - I currently have 2, which is 45 turns.  The temple makes 3, which is 30.  A rax makes 4.

My guess is that my border with mr cairo will be stable, unless he pours a ton of culture into it.

the blue tiles with SD I presume i'll get.  He doesn't have a high culture item like HG there.

Earth


For Earth, the red tile is one I'm eventually going to lose - I'm not sure how long - I'm pouring 16 cpt in - obviously, once he expands his border, he'll overcome that slowly.  My guess
is that he'll take 10-30 turns to overcome it, but it will.

I should keep green.  No way does he put enough culture on it to take it from me.  It's pretty important, for me to keep track of the border.
Yellow - god knows.  I will have a lot of culture from waitwait and some from radiolab, but Earth and Mars are likely to end up hitting 100 before radiolab, so will likely pour a ton of culture into it.
The two blue tiles are ones I expect to take temporary custody of, but to lose pretty fast.  I dunno how well SD understands culture mechanics - I don't have any trouble with lurkers letting him now that he'll get them back pretty fast.

Island



This is interesting.  A lot depends on how much culture he can get in and when.  If he can't get any in before I do, I might even end up flipping the city.  I don't think that's the case - I am sure he set up so he could get the fur.
The green circles I should have, long term.  I may lose temporarily, but I'll definitely keep them long term.  
Red I won't get ever.  
Yellow will be highly disputed.  I suspect they will be mine, as I think I will have a culture advantage there, with terrace and cheap temple, but who knows?

[AutomatedTeller]

The plan for the silver city:

Turn 101
The galley drops off an archer and a worker on the tundra forest.
Settler finishes and walks south
Turn 102
settler walks south
Galley moves 2.
Worker roads
Archer moves into culture.
turn 103
Settler walks further south
Galley moves 2
worker roads
Turn 104
walker finishes road
Settler +missionary load
galley moves 2
Turn 05
Galley moves 2
worker chop/cancel
archers move next to woods
turn 106
worker chop/cancel
Settler and missionary unload
archers move to tundra forest
turn 107
worker chop/cancel
settler and archers move to hill
turn 108
chops finishes into walls
settler settles. Decide when to put missionary in.

Why would I delay the missionary?

It depends on when SD gets culture. This is gonna upset him anyway, but it's possible that I can deny him fur. I'd prefer to not provoke him more if I can help it. I think he has to have another food source, but maybe he planted to get silver up and running asap.

This SHOULD be able to get a city there - he planted on turn 94, so he would have to get culture into that city on turn 97 to cut me out and that seems unlikely without a forest chop. He might have, I dunno.

He also might have sent a settler to that spot to settle - in that case, I'll send the settler over the whale site by AllThings.

[AutomatedTeller]

Turn 101 iron working

On the plus side, we have access to iron:

On the down side:

I'll get it first - StolenLand has about 100 turns to go for it's next expansion.

Of course, with this much land, I have more than one.  

I'm not unhappy about this location, though it will take a long time to hook up.  But it gives TinyDesk a fair amount of hammers along with it's food.

This is exactly where I wanted iron to be, though   a 2-4, easy to improve tile.  I knew I loved WaitWait

I wonder if it's getting to be WarElephant time

As an aside, I am #1 in soldiers.

Krill, btw, has iron hooked up. No one else does.