WW47: Small Mafia Shenanigans

[T-hawk]

Kaiser, I do see one adjustment to your analysis.  Lylo isn't necessarily true on day 3 if a doctor or jailkeeper save can still be in play that night.  That would make it 2:2 between remaining town and wolves on day 4, but as I understand it the earlier-vote-wins tiebreaker means we can still lynch a wolf then by winning the race to vote first, and again on day 5 when it's 1:1 (although that situation seems silly if first-to-post wins.)

A random thought: For in-person games, which some (like myself) are coming from, there's more motivation to avoid getting lynched early.  If that happens, it's depressing as you have to sit out while everyone else keeps playing.  Online it's not so bad, you don't get stuck with downtime.  This doesn't affect any reads, just tossing out a note on that behavior.

[Meiz]

What's your take on Alhambram, thrawn?

[Meiz]

Ad T-hawk, how do you like thrawn's claim that he was making a play to generate discussion? Does his play so far line up with that thought and soes it make you less/more suspicious of him?

[T-hawk]

It's going in both directions.  Either Thrawn is honest or is making a big coverup, I think he's either truly a vanilla villager or a power wolf (roleblocker or rolecop) who wants to get to use that power.

Anyway, I'll bring up the topic of potential targets for the roles tonight.  That's something we can discuss and a possible way to start clearing people. Cop, Tracker, Jailkeeper are the possible roles that affect the wolves.  I mentioned before that Thrawn and Grillo seem to be the most swingy targets with the most to gain from pegging; any thoughts on that from anyone? Not sure where a Doctor or Friendly Neighbor might go; I'd suggest maybe Meiz as he seems to have been the most solidly organizing for town so far, or again Grillo in line with that questionnaire.

[pindicator]

2) Thrawn's going pindicator to no-lynch back to pindicator. Thrawn's play still seems inconsistent to me, last time I chatted with him he said he was still waiting for pindicator to answer his and Kaiser's question, which pindicator did in #52. Thrawn then voted 'no lynch' which could be interpreted either as being satisfied with pindicator's response, or just demonstrating the mechanic, and then takes a tangent to ask a question about cops roleclaiming before coming back to vote pindicator again in #75. His stated question to pindicator is asking for some reads, but pindicator already did that in #52, so it's not really a prod-for-discussion. If that were really thrawn's aim, why not direct it at someone like T-hawk, who had at the time actually given no reads?

Because I had an interesting question to ask and think that pindi should be quite ok to give us some opinion. As I already told you I am only investigating at the moment, and my vote does not represent an accusation. And btw pindicator I'd still like an answer to that question please. It will be my last question to you for today.

Yeah, like the thing you quoted - I already did give that.  So why double down?

Anyway, I'm less likely to think you're scum right now.  Your play seems a bit too bumbling for it to be intentional.

I'm going to continue my streak of agreeing with the person i voted for last and agree with Alhambram that I haven't exactly seen anything of substance from Amicalola, nor did I like their Alhambram vote/reasoning.  I like El Grillo's post in 83 because it mimics my thoughts a lot.  Except I seem to lean less on you being scum than El Grillo might.

On the other end of things (i refuse to copy adjectives here), I'm going say I do not like the feel of T-hawk's post now that he's contributed.  He pretty much ends every person in his list with a version of "might be a wolf, might be a town" while voting for the person that seems the easiest vote so far this game.

I feel like Grillo is the same as last game, so I'm leaning town on him.  Meiz feels okay, though I don't quite feel as good about him yet. Maybe he doesn't feel town because he hasn't attacked me yet

And Kaiser, it was your comment about whether I'd keep my streak up.  Seemed like if I had a power role it might easily cause some slip like "oh, I hope I can do it too!" or something of the like.  Anyway, I'm a one-shot vig, so don't kill me I'm not the SK.

[Meiz]

I argee with you that my tone did sound strong, I wasn't conscious enough to realize that that tone matter too. Due lack of team playing game as explained above, I percieved everyone as possible enemy and every word that they write might have malicious intent hiding behind them.
At this moment as I write, a thought crossed me that Pindicator might set me up resulting in easy mislynch for village while he gets away with it, but again it might sound farfetched too.
I admit that I feel pressured, but that is because it is first time that I am standing at stage. Next time when new werewolf/mafia game appears I think that it shall bother me less.
I can't turn back clock and I have to live with consequences for my strong statement against El Grillo which started lynch train against me.

I'm not talking about your tone, but the fact that your first thought was El Grillo is trying to draw out newbies for a mislynch queue. So you're either immediately in very paranoid state as a town (Enemies, enemies everywhere   ), or saw Pindicator making an argument, jumped on it but was also pressured to spell out more justification for your vote to appear contributing / hunting wolves.


Alhambram

For discussion about roles, I argee with most people that day 1 gives too little information about roles.
Mostly after first night a good guessing game for villagers can start, scum already can guess somewhat by their own roles from start.
Therefore for villagers with role, it is better to hid thier roles as long as possible to avoid being killed or mislynched by wolves/villagers.

I'm also wondering the last line of your post here. Why would you think town power roles need to hide their roles to prevent a mislynch by wolves/villager? Night kill by wolves I can understand.

As far as I can see, you never answered to El Grillo's post, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid749534
Why?

[Meiz]

Well, I like your thoughts above Pindicator. Agree on the read of thrawn, he seems more town than wolf so far. And I agree on T-hawk, I've found his posts so far to been very neutral and "clean", giving me more of a crafted wolf posts tone. I also agree Amicalola needs to contribute more on his reads.

[Meiz]

Btw. does anybody know what would happen during lynch if there are 2 wolves and 2 villagers left?
No lynch due to tie or is there some kind of a tie breaker?

"If there are only 2 players left and no Day powers apply, the day result will automatically be a no lynch and tiebreak mechanisms will not come into play

Otherwise, The first person to reach their vote total will be lynched in the event of a tie."

As for Kaiser, I've felt like he is genuinely believing in his idea for the benefits of role discussion, so not getting any malicious intent from there. For reference ideas like:

"I would like to try to start game related discussion likely forcing the wolves to lie/invent their positions on these as they have a different game target than the rest of the village""
""It will leave a trail for the wolves though they might stumble over later when and if (is maybe one of these two words sufficient here?) they might make a role claim towards the end of the game."

That being said, it's time to get on with the wolf hunting (=giving reads on how players have played so far and your stance on it).

[Alhambram]

I argee with you that my tone did sound strong, I wasn't conscious enough to realize that that tone matter too. Due lack of team playing game as explained above, I percieved everyone as possible enemy and every word that they write might have malicious intent hiding behind them.
At this moment as I write, a thought crossed me that Pindicator might set me up resulting in easy mislynch for village while he gets away with it, but again it might sound farfetched too.
I admit that I feel pressured, but that is because it is first time that I am standing at stage. Next time when new werewolf/mafia game appears I think that it shall bother me less.
I can't turn back clock and I have to live with consequences for my strong statement against El Grillo which started lynch train against me.

I'm not talking about your tone, but the fact that your first thought was El Grillo is trying to draw out newbies for a mislynch queue. So you're either immediately in very paranoid state as a town (Enemies, enemies everywhere   ), or saw Pindicator making an argument, jumped on it but was also pressured to spell out more justification for your vote to appear contributing / hunting wolves.


Alhambram

For discussion about roles, I argee with most people that day 1 gives too little information about roles.
Mostly after first night a good guessing game for villagers can start, scum already can guess somewhat by their own roles from start.
Therefore for villagers with role, it is better to hid thier roles as long as possible to avoid being killed or mislynched by wolves/villagers.

I'm also wondering the last line of your post here. Why would you think town power roles need to hide their roles to prevent a mislynch by wolves/villager? Night kill by wolves I can understand.

As far as I can see, you never answered to El Grillo's post, https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...#pid749534
Why?

The answer for your first question is unfortunately this: So you're either immediately in very paranoid state as a town (Enemies, enemies everywhere   )

For second question, because if someone reveal his villager role, wolves might attempt to accuse that player for faking his role and wolves might try convince others in mislynching that player.


And about El Grillo's post, I did answer at post #55 since Pindicator did ask sorta same question. Afterwards it didn't occur me to answer El Grillo directly.

[WarriorKnight]

That being said, it's time to get on with the wolf hunting (=giving reads on how players have played so far and your stance on it).

I agree. Speaking of which, time to stop encouraging participation and start pressuring. In some order:

Wolfish:

T-Hawk - As others have commented, seems a bit too clean with posting and hasn't really stated an firm opinion aside from jumping on the thrawn wagon. Also continues to discussing roles even after Kaiser dropped the subject. Don't like his posts at all so far.

Kaiser - Not sure if his posts regarding roles were a classic wolf distraction or a genuine attempt to start discussion. Has since dropped the subject due to popular demand but has yet to contribute anything aside from that.


Unsure:

Alhambram & Amicalola - Both are in similar positions, having been pressured to explain themselves for jumping on a bandwagon. For the moment I don't see either as particularly wolfy, moreso as new players expressing opinions without explaining their reasoning well enough. They both need to post more in defense and share their own thoughts on others (esp. Amicalola).

thrawn - Not convinced with his play so far. I don't see his reasons for numerous pindicator pokes and has been quite defensive to numerous poking attempts aimed at him. That said I don't see a reason to vote for him yet over those higher in this list.


Townish:

Meiz - Could easily have contributed more to Kaiser's role posts, but was the first to object to the usefulness of roles discussion. Hadn't seen much in the way of a definite opinion from him until his most recent posts, for now I lean town.

pindicator - Jumped on El Grillo a bit too early, aside from that haven't seen much to get suspicious over. I do like his recent posts.

El Grillo - Haven't seen anything suspicious so far. Could maybe post a bit more, but I like what I see so far.


For now I'm keeping my vote on Amicalola until I hear more from him, may switch to one of my top 2 later.