RB PBEM #2 - Justinian (SPOILERS!)

[Dreylin]

Letters with Krill:

Something just came to me in my sleep deprived delirium...3 Englishmen (I assume...I don't know which city Dreylin is from ) about to go to war with an American.

Is the War of Independence an appropriate theme? We do have the Native Americans in the game...

Krill

Hmmm dunno, never been good with themes. Maybe the French-Indian war would be better, but then that was fought when the States were still British...

Darrell stopped by this morning and asked me for a NAP extension. I told him I wanted to keep my options open, at which point he started pressing me for which way I was leaning. I eventually told him that I was leaning away from him for self-preservation reasons....

On the subject of NAP, I assume that we will put one in place for the duration of the war, with a suitable cooling-down period tagged on at the end?

SL & I chatted for a while and came up with this re: Astro - if we confirm that neither Darrell nor Ruff can see his research, SL will switch tech (& maybe run gold for a few turns) and Krill would gift him Astro on the same turn he was due to discover it anyway, then he distributes it to me & Darrell. That way SL can maintain some distance from fight and attempt to play the neutral card, whilst still fulfilling his/our commitment to supply Astro to Darrell (and delaying it at the same time).

As far as land split goes Krill, if you really want none of Darrell's land (or the mass S of Trebizond) then SL and I will come up with an appropriate split between the two of us. For the staging island; I guess you'll want that returned once we've secured a mainland base? I'd also still be interested in trading some of the mainland territory for your closer island cities, but I guess that could be negotiated later.

Since SL and I will be splitting our territory around your core, I wonder if you'd be willing to sign some sort of deal guaranteeing their safety in event of a later conflict ... maybe something along the lines of a single-front deal that guaratees we fight core-to-core and not in the colonies?

I also wanted to ask your advice for suggested unit mix; do you see the war being fought more as an amphibous deal or as a marching stack supported from the sea? Obviously that affects the proportion of Cannon to produce.

Dreylin.

[Dreylin]

Skullduggery, ho!

Dreylin, SL,

I am happy to agree to an NAP with both you and SL, for the length of the war and beyond, plus a suitable cool down period.

I am also happy with the Astro trade as you propose, me request would be that I get Drama and Philo in exchange (SL can trade Drama and then Philo of subsequent turns, to match my research, if wanted).

On the land issue, can we wait until next turn? If you recall, I asked if a world map trade would be acceptable before discussing land splits, because I don't really know what you guys have.

I do have some news about Darrell though...he just agreed to give me the gold island cities, plus contributing to the force against Dreylin, to keep the war on track...I want to make him believe that this is the case, and when he moves the boats and units up, me and Dreylin kill them. Then we proceed to take Darrell out of the game as planned.

Thoughts? And no, I don't have a problem with this.

Krill

A two-part chat (before and after he send me his chat with Darrell:

krill.krill: I'm a bastard

me: er, yeah
just reading your e-mail
for a second I thought you were betraying us already...

krill.krill: I'm not that much of a bastard
Are you ok with it?

me: map trade go through SL
but yeah, OK with waiting

krill.krill: I'll be gifting the gold island cities over to who ever should have them once it is safe to do so

me: other stuff: well that's your betrayal, and not mine, so ultimately it would be for you to live with / down
I don't think I personally would do what you're proposing

krill.krill: I'll send you the full chat, then head for a shower
sent to Kepier

me: got it

OK so you may have seen this elsewhere, but here's the Darrell-Krill chat:

Darrell: yo
yo I say

Krill: groggy

Darrell: so I guess I need to ask you this
do we still have a NAP?
because I get the feeling you think we don't

Krill: Oh, I think we have an NAP.
otherwise you'd have lost your front city by now

Darrell: So just to confirm you consider us under a non-aggressoin pact and we can't attack each other?

Krill: Yup.

Darrell: Okay...part 2. Are you stilll going to attack Dreylin and do you still want my help there, or is the steel trade causing you to switch allegiances
and if the latter, is that set in stone or still negotiable?

Krill: I don't think either of those paths is along what I'm thinking of doing

Darrell: Hmm
I've started and stopped typing about 3 different things.
I guess what I really want to know is should I bother IMing you anymore about this game, or is our cooperation over?

Krill: I believe that co-operation is still on going.
Sids et al

Darrell: Okay...past deals are understood to still be in effect then?
All of them?

Krill: I can't remember most of them, so you'd have to remind me

Darrell: well there is the one where you give me 5 cities of my choice t111
that was the one I was most concerned with
Let's see, there was the "big" agreement I sent you via e-mail a copy of a few days ago when we were talkign about the gold island
BTW, under that agreement you ahd the right to ask for a Gold resource, do you still wish to do so?
Then the NAP of course.
The tech trades we had worked out.
Err...no joining a dogpile against the other guy.
Open borders full game.
Shrine sharing, sid's, mining inc
NAP
NAP has no RoP
I guess that's all I recall.

Darrell: ECHO...Echo...echo...

Krill: Sorry,playing the turn
asa heads up, I can't request gpt from you
because you are deficit researching

Darrell: Hmm okay, I will offer it then dial it back down the following turn

Krill: you need to alter your slider, send the gpt bydiplo

Darrell: yes

Krill: and then change your slider back

Darrell: yes
Okay. FWIW, I regret sending Steel over to Dreylin. I guess I didn't anticipate your response, perhaps foolishly. I guess I still prefer to work with you and am not quite sure the best way to make that happen. I mean, is there any kind of reparations you'd be willing to accept to make things "right"?

it was 5gpt, right? and then 11+5=16 gold flat.
I can re-caculate but that's my memory

Krill: yeah, I asked for 16 gold

Darrell: Okay...and the other?

Krill: I don't know

Darrell: Well, I'm out Jun 11-15 so at least think about it.
I mean I'm happy about the existing deals, it takes a load off, but don't want to have things go sour over the steel trade. I've enjoyed talking about the game as much as playing it ;(

Krill: What about the gold island cities?

Darrell: Let me understand what you are suggesting...I cede you the gold island cities and you forgive me the steel trade and we are back to where we were (about to gang up on Dreylin)?
And yes

Krill: and pretty much. but let's get this straight - I know I need to do the heavy lifting, but I would not be going it alone. You would be earning your island.

Darrell: Just what I was going to say
I think if I just read the e-mail properly I suggested 25% of the total force
heck I already settled 2 of the cities for you, put judaism in there, got 2 fish improved, granary, etc.
we iron this out I'll gift you those cities next turn

Krill: ok

Darrell: So what are you going to tell Dreylin?
You know, considering you were getting him to fight me via proxy . We had a chat about that.
I like this deal better, even with the logistics your hammer would have been tough to fight off.
And it lets me get some revenge on that assmunch.

Krill: I'lltell him the deal is off because you decided to do the right thing

Darrell: Fair enough.
So let's tally.

Krill: and we can go back to fighting.

Darrell: My decision to trade Dreylin Steel cost me a) 3 cities, b) have to slog through cannon and frigates now, c) some lost sleep
you'd think I was too old to learn lessons, but apparently not
I'm on Nationalism now BTW, figured drafting would be key.
I know that was on your side but we'll have to jig it around a bit

Krill: I should finish Astro in 2 turns

Darrell: nationlism in 3
aright...missed breakfast and now lunch, got to head back to work
talk to you later

Krill: cyaaround

Darrell: oh...one last thing. I can't trade you maps (not even screenshots), but should be able to help plan logistics
how good is your intel on his lands right now?

Krill: it is ok.

Darrell: okay...do you have an area you want me to aim for?
I assume the best plan is to hit him from multiple directions

Krill: Take out his capital first

Darrell: Okay...I am thinkig this
Take 2 CR3 maces, 4 cannon, and 6 muskets on 4 galleons, and bring 8ish frigates
I was penciling and I think it will take about a dozen turns to put that together, if I whip into unhappiness for the navy
which I will
If you are bringing one big stack in it probably makes sense to coordinate the timing on that
but if you are slow rolling it then I guess I can assemble and just go

Krill: I don't quite know what I'm goingto do RE: building
Golden age after I finish Astro

Darrell: Okay..I've got 4 drydocks in production (about to be another)
I just triggered my GA
nationalism comes in I will swap to nationhood/theocracy to get the muskets

Krill: So I'm the last to the golden age...ok

Darrell: the navy has to be whipped tho
I wish I had the mausoleum
I will be going to free market as well, that should help.

Krill: ok
I'm probably going to go Caste when I go golden
and slavery afterwards

Darrell: interesting

Krill: I have workshops down

Darrell: ah
that makes sense
didn't strike me as the time to leverage rep scientists
GA is really short in quick
don't feel I'm getting my money's worth tbh

Krill: longer than it should be
comparedto Normal

Darrell: can we swap civics twice?
or is there still the 10t delay

Krill: you need to swap on the first and last turn of the golden age
soyou can only swap once now

Darrell: drat
I guess it doesn't matter much
in this case

Krill: not really
When is your second gold hooked up?

Darrell: I have both now
no I take that back
only one
which you'll get I guess when the city gets gifted

Krill: ok
If you hook up the second gold nextturn, I will immediately gift that one to you

Darrell: You want to gift me a mainland worker and I'll gift you the one on the island?
hmm
you know what
you might have an issue
I was relying on the great wall to protect those cities, I only have the one archer I used to protect the sites when founding
I could give you one city now and one later

Krill: are there barbson the island?

Darrell: or...with the borders popped there might be a spot the archer defogs the whole island
I think that might work
no
but the norther spot is not settled yet

Krill: great wall on works on the continent it is built

Darrell: really?

Krill: so it isn;t working on those cities
yup

Darrell: wow
just wow
shows you how often I build that wonder
well let me see if the archer can defog the whole island
also what about the worker swap?

Krill: ifyou gift the cities next turn

Darrell: reasonable number of tiles to improve up there, gonna take forever to get one up
okay

Krill: I can gift youa worker next turn aswell
it can be 1 S of Seattle when it getsgifted

Darrell: that's fine
oh
I put a universtiy there
one of my oxford unis
not anywhere near stealing tiles but just keep an eye on it

Darrell: wish I had thought to mail myself some screenshots before going to work
Now I have to do work instead of logistics

Krill: Your difficulty is going to be getting the galleons to go south, via Vietnam. Going north wouldadd too muchtime

Darrell: Im debating cash upgrading some galleys to speed it up
I think 2 would be enough

Krill: probably about right

Er wow, so Darrell thinks I'm the bad guy here and he's after "revenge"!?!?

me: I'm an "assmunch"!?!?!?
Wow, I don't really get how this is my fault, but whatever

krill.krill: where that get posted?

me: Darrell:

So what are you going to tell Dreylin?
You know, considering you were getting him to fight me via proxy . We had a chat about that.
I like this deal better, even with the logistics your hammer would have been tough to fight off.
And it lets me get some revenge on that assmunch.

krill.krill: Feeling so bad about the backstab now?

me: nope

krill.krill: If we are to pull off such a plan, we need to be very careful about techss
especially Mil Science

me: about MilSci
due in ~4t

krill.krill: I'd suggest that you don't get it...
or rather, don' finish researching it

me: to keep him from the discount?

krill.krill: Because it opens up SoL
and would likely force me and Darrell to put off the invasion to tech it and build SoL

me: well that was one of the points of getting it

krill.krill: ah
but if you finish it the turn we backstab...
then we have SoL and he doesn't
well

me: defense against you...

krill.krill: I backstab
Really think we need it now?

me: but also Grenadiers

krill.krill: If this works...I'm going to be capturing 3 of the mainland cities the turn I declare

me: wow

krill.krill: Possibly 4

me: So you still need our help!?

krill.krill: I'm not interestedin keeping the land
I'm interested in doing the unexpected

me: lol

krill.krill: If Itook the land you'd gangbang me afterwards anyway
I'm not interested in getting gangbanged either

me: well fair enough then
let me know how best I can contribute
but I don't really want to hold off MilSci for too long

krill.krill: Well, all this is best case scenario

me: as backstab insurance....

krill.krill: and you know the adage, plans don't survive contact with the enemy

me: o'course

krill.krill: I understand

me: I assume Darrell is planning aroung a t120 timetable as well?

krill.krill: dunno
I hope so
2 turns I go golden, he went golden this turn
good chance he ends up drafting
Nationalism in, what, 3?

me: that's what he said

krill.krill: I'm wondering why you haven't revolted to Theocracy yet

me: Well since we signed deal, I'm finishing some buildings off:
Drydocks & some Barracks

krill.krill: Aren't drydocks fun

me: also last Uni before Oxford

krill.krill: meh,Oxford
overrated

me: well my civ is more centralised than yours
anyway, plan is to revolt soon

krill.krill: cool
I'm about to piss Darrell off by revolting to Merc
should be fun
me: heh

A long read. Not sure if I still feel comfortable taking part in this whole thing (or that Krill isn't going to switch sides again), but I do think my long-term survival chances have improved ... maybe?

[Dreylin]

t111 - no diplo, on to builds....

Constantinople: Barracks - Musket
Thessalonica: Drydock - Harbour (for health)
Antioch: University - Courthouse
Angora: Courthouse - University

Send some Caravels to explore SE ... Krill has his own trailing mine. I take special care to keep them clear of his seafood!

With 2t left on the Golden Age, I have 152g in the bank and am running at -98gpt. I ask SL for 50g to keep me going for the second turn.

I remember to switch up the Specialists in Constantinople, firing the Scientists and hiring Merchants instead - expenses down to 89gpt.

[Dreylin]

Chatting with Darrell & Krill (separately):

Darrell: yp
yo

me: yip?

Darrell: so what's the good word?

me: well I guess it looks like we may not get any more turns in this week


Darrell: You think Ruff wont' get his PC fixed?

me: well not today, certainly

Darrell: yeah
so have you decided yet?

me: then you're off on Friday

Darrell: right wont be back until wed

me: well, I've been thinking some more
you mentioned setting up a forward base for us

Darrell: I've been convinced that's a cheese move

me: I assume you don't think Krill will out-and-out declare on you still?
Really, by the Lurkers?

Darrell: SL

me: ah
so what would your plan be to stop me/us getting steamrollered?

Darrell: so you aren't leaning krill's direction any more?

me: well he's seemed a little less enthusiastic recently
and you did ask me to give you a chance to make a better offer

Darrell: yeah I havent thought to much on your quesiton though...I figured this 5 day vacation would give me strategy time

me: well I guess it's close to crunch time
though I'm a bit surprised that Krill didn't have Astro 3-4turns ago!?

Darrell: Yeah I know...ruff being out is actually good I guess...probably wont get another turn in until the break and I can brainstorm a bit

me: that lack of lead will certainly help

Darrell: I'll have my phone with gchat too so we can still talk over the break
Is his cash still steady?

me: OK, well my short-term plan is to pump out troops/boats either way

Darrell: He could be playing some clever game where he is upgrading units to make his gold steady while running surplus gold
he is that crafty

me: well, I haven't managed to get a look into his territory (my Caravels keep getting killed) so I wouldn't know

Darrell: I'm scared to send a scout in there aftter what happened to yours

me: could use some Airships right now!

Darrell: yeah, that tech is a ways away

me: well you guys have a NAP
and we didn't

Darrell: Yeah...that's true. I just dunno if he'd do an RB vs. Imperio on me and say trading steal was "aggresive" or somethign like that

me: Hmmm, maybe

Darrell: okay I have to go back to work, ttyl

me: 'k bye

me: Hi

krill.krill: Hi mate

me: just chatting with Darrell....
Also, I wanted to mention my exploring Caravels
I headed them in your direction (with your pair following)
but given our status, etc. I'll keep them out of borders at turn ends

krill.krill: Would you mind if I give you some vague directions? I don't want the caravels stopping me working coastin the moia city
ah
np then

me: I figured that would be safest
I told Darrell that you "seemed a little less enthusiastic recently"
and offered him the chance to make me a better offer


krill.krill: This game really hasgone to hell in a hand basket...
It is going to be amazing toread after the game

me: hell, I'm just waiting to see which of us betrays each other come the war!

krill.krill: Yeah,very high stakes, isn't it?

me: Well I think you're probably the safest
but yeah

krill.krill: I dunno
Safe like a hedgehog
You can still get squashed by a car if you aren't careful

me: well something tells me the spikes are coming out....

krill.krill: yup

krill.krill: Anything interesting?
like "Krill is MY ally! You are going down Mofo" etc?

me: no, nothing definitive
he's going to spend his break strategising
I asked how he thought he could help stop me get steamrollered
he kinda shrugged

krill.krill: Good to know...

[Dreylin]

t112 - going again ... now where was I?

Constantinople: Musketman - MoM
Adrianople: Cannon - Musketman
Antioch: Courthouse - Cannon
Nicomedia: Drydock - Settler (for remaining island spot)

Vote for me as Pope.

Um, nothing much going on right now. Circulate a few Caravels and get a look at both Krill's cities of Dublin and Newcastle ... looks like there's a third one further South of Newcastle as well!

Last turn of GA, and I'm keeping at 100%. MilSci due in 2t if I had enough gold, but since I don't I'll run a couple of turns at 0% (delaying as Krill asked) before finishing it off.

[Dreylin]

t113 - out of GA, down to 0% research, and getting the whips ready....

Thessalonica: Harbour - Musket
Nicaea: Cannon - Cannon
Trebizond: Budd. Monastery - Lighthouse

Get my Pope hat & Pope robes re-issued.

Caravels explore a bit more ... being careful to avoid Krill's territory:

Hi Dreylin,

just a small request of you: you have a caravel to the north of my core, next to two tundra islands. I have a settler heading for the eastern island, to hook up some crabs. Could you please not move your caravel 2S, 1SE? I have a galley that needs to use that tile next turn to move.

Also, how is Mil Science coming along? I think I saw last turn it was on 1 turn to go? I have just finished Astro, so I'll send that to SL next turn, so he can send it to you on turn 115.

Krill

Whip Granary into Iconium. University in Angora will have to wait a turn.

tum-te-tum.

[Dreylin]

Morning chat with Krill:

krill.krill: Yo dude, you around?

me: kinda

krill.krill: What do you want to do about Darrell?
I mean
how do you want to set up our actions?

me: well, are you still leading him into a trap?

krill.krill: I hope so...
I haven't spoken with him since he got back, been too busy

me: so where are you setting up the trap?

krill.krill: I can only think of 2 locations

me: it would be best if we can defeat his Galleons while they're still loaded

krill.krill: yeah

me: which means overwhelming numbers

krill.krill: I'm thinking either next to my western most city,or if possible, around VP/Dublin area
Lots of Frigates, yup

me: Not sure I've seen VP yet
but I have Dublin

krill.krill: ask for the world map from SL

me: have done

krill.krill: the area north of Dublin

me: Ah, OK

krill.krill: problem is that either I'll have to declare on Darrell and hence he needs to be outside my borders, or we do some real funky shit with gifting units and cities

me: we can't declare Peace until after we attack him, right

krill.krill: yup

me: yeah, I was just thinking about bouncing

krill.krill: This is one way to set it up
GetDarrell to move to my western most city
The turn before he moves the units to the astal tiles to the west, youaskfor the city
When I get the save, I accept the gift, hisunits don't jump, and I shred the stack
We figure out what tile the units jump to when you declare, and you position units to attack that tile the turn before as well.
then you take out the remainder of the stack

me: That does seem a tad cheesy
trading the city just to get the result

krill.krill: well
yeah

me: I'd prefer we did it some other way
if we can work one out

krill.krill: the other option is that I try to persaude Darrellto move in with me straightfor your capital
so, he moves out from my western most city and heads in
and most of his navy will be accessible without bumping
The risk there is he might off load units

me: Hmmm

krill.krill: Whatever happens, we'll be hitting units on coastal tiles

me: can't really be helped

krill.krill: yeah
but C2 frigates...
Darrell is not in Theo IIRC,so he shouldn;t have many C2 frigates, meaning lots of 50/50 battles
hopefully, anyway

me: Well we'll have the advantage of numbers for certain

krill.krill: yup

me: Hmmmm
let me think about it some more when I see the turn again
(and hopefully have the WM from SL)

krill.krill: ok
I'm just wondering if I kick off a GA this turn or not

me: we've got ~8t?

krill.krill: btw, whatare you teching now?
about that

me: t120 is when his NAP with me expires
still on MilSci
but down at 0%
building up gold
gonna run a couple of upgrades once I get Astro and maybe fund SL for a while
MilSci is 6t at 0%

krill.krill: ok, I'll do PP? Would you be willing to trade that for MS, and I make up the difference in gold?
ie, beaker difference/2 = amount of gold I owe you?

me: In principle I'd make the trade with some balancing factor, but I'm not sure I agree with 1/2 beaker difference

krill.krill: ok
just the gold goes from me to you, so the relative amount traded is about equal

me: PP is 1600 to MilSci's 2000?
400b difference

krill.krill: something like that

<snip some chatting about Football & other games>

me: you have a deal with Darrell for Nat?

krill.krill: Not that I know of

me: OK, 'cos SL is on that now (several turns slower than Darrell)
and I was wondering how he'd get PP if you were grabbing that elsewhere

krill.krill: I'm happy to gift PP over to SL - I'm not going to be getting it fast
I can very easily drag that out for 8 turns

me: heh
I also wondered if you'd got a Taj deal with Darrell, but I asume not if no Nat deal

krill.krill: yeh, no deal on Taj
as much as I'd like it...

me: sure, me too!

krill.krill: yeah, Mr. MoM

me: well it's been lurking in the queue for quite a few turns
Since I took my first GA, I've been hoping one of you IND guys would finish it and give me a nice cash refund!

krill.krill: Well, I would have...it was wonder number 6, but I only just teched Calendar

me: heh

Which reminds me, I really should be in Theocracy sometime soon....

[Dreylin]

t114 - Mausoleum of Maussollos completes.

Constantinople: MoM - Cannon
Adrianople: Musket - Musket
Antioch: Cannon - Musket
Nicomedia: Settler - Buddhist Missionary
Iconium: Granary - Buddhist Temple



Laodicea grabs the Wheat from Trebizond who responds by whipping it's Lighhouse. I also realise that the Cottage is going to have to go, replaced by a Farm to carry the irrigation to Trebizond.

Map trade has come in ... WHAAAT!?



Well that's an oddity.

Whip University No6 into Angora, before switching Civics from OrgRel to Theocracy ... only a few buildings in progress and many more troops, so it's about time.

[T-hawk]

Well that's an oddity.

I have always been highly amused that the map editor can do that. I have no idea if it works or not, if it needs a nonexistent improvement or anything. Feel free to drop a city in the ice to try.

[pocketbeetle]

For those who are reading this, and like me sat and scratched their heads for 5 minutes trying to figure out what was going on:

That entertainment mask is the happiness resource only provided by the Broadway(?) wonder.
As in, should not be there at all.

I'm with T-Hawk however, go claim it Dreylin!