Adventure 45 - Sponsor shadow and comments

[T-hawk]

What to DO with these silly tech shenanigans is another matter entirely. Liberalism itself doesn't do much in 1000 BC and neither does Nationalism. Free Religion would be amusing for +3-4 happy in Carthage. Maybe you could research Constitution and get Representation before you could even build the Pyramids.

The most practical use of Oracle-Education probably doesn't involve Lib, but Gunpowder. That could come by 1500 BC, and you could pretty easily squish at least one civ in each direction with muskets before they get longbows. Could then Lib-Nationalism to draft muskets too, though it would be a while until you could get Globe up.

Or else go for cuirassiers, saving Lib for Mil Tradition itself, could probably do that by about 1 AD. You'd need to make sure to grab Egypt's iron though.

[regoarrarr]

What about Oracling Guilds? Maybe in conjunction with the Pyramids (to get an Engineer to bulb Machinery)

[darrelljs]

I'm convinced that Education is the best Oracle target, just as the biggest tech.

Liberalism would be better if you can part bulb Education with a GS .

Darrell

[darrelljs]

What to DO with these silly tech shenanigans is another matter entirely. Liberalism itself doesn't do much in 1000 BC and neither does Nationalism.

This conversation has been had before . The MP threads in particular show some good uses for it, but in general its more of a puzzle than a valid strategy.

Darrell

[pocketbeetle]

Yeah but in the beginning you don't have any specialists without GLib. And those 2 free spec will give you 12 beakers from the start you should be able to run for the pyramids and chop them out without problems. I believe you can have the 3 (GLib, Pyramids, Ox U) faster with Lib+Ox as starter than with Mids+Ox

+1. T-Hawk's first-GPerson rule makes GLibrary the clear choice IMHO. GLibrary + Oxford is the absolute best t1 research, AND it gets the Academy (100% chance!) sooner as well. We all know CIV is a snowball game, and t1 GLib, doubled, then an Academy early is...pretty much game over.

EDIT: Without slowing down expansion via the whip. Oxford+Mids is nice (heck - I though when the game opened that Mids was better than Oxford for the Rep bonus, and still like it), but you need to pull two pop over to specialists. You have the food and happy to do it (with Rep), but you've then stopped putting those pop2->pop4 cheap growths towards settlers.

Still not convinced!
Sunrise - don't forget that 2 specialists from TGLib = 1 Rep powered spec. So that's only 1 pop you're losing to equal TGLib. And you're starting with a higher happy cap.

Regarding Rowain's comment about getting the 3 faster with TGL + Ox, I would counter that I didn't build TGL at all.
By the time of Literature, research was going fast enough that TGL would've been a waste of hammers - obsoletes too fast.

So in short, undeniable that TGL has faster T1 research speed, but I think Pyramids catches up, and then overtakes, faster than you're giving it credit.

Maybe I'm wrong, don't have time to try it out atm.

[Ruff_Hi]

I got a save from t-hawk (SoL + Sistine Chapel for free culture). Unfortunately, I didn't get time to finish the game. After that, I was going to play a war directed game (Kremlin + Globe) OCC type game.

I did play the early part and I think I noticed the Mediterranean feel. Italy certainly went gang busters in my game and was taking over the top of the map.

[darrelljs]

Sunrise - don't forget that 2 specialists from TGLib = 1 Rep powered spec.

Its only half the GPPs though.

Darrell

[pocketbeetle]

Its only half the GPPs though.

Darrell

I couldn't give a flying poodle!

[T-hawk]

One more look at this before we put it to bed.



I had to try the Kremlin/Globe opening. With darrell's achievement of 13 cities by 1 AD as a target, I completed the land-grab to 17 cities until running out of room in 150 BC. Carthage oscillated between sizes 4 and 6, whipping a settler every fourth turn like clockwork and overflowing onto wonders or workers or military.

I got Stonehenge, but made a mistake in going for the Oracle (Metal Casting). Those beakers and forests should have gone to the Great Lighthouse instead, which I missed by about 8 turns, and which would pay out much more economy than the Oracle. Still I mitigated the damage by getting Colossus and trading Metal Casting for a decent haul.

Yeah that economy looks seriously negative, but it's just a matter of time and cottages to recover. Just working 5 Colossus coast tiles would be break-even. Building Research can get to Currency. I also settled the Kremlin Great Spy and have about 1500 EP on Mansa for stealing.

Turning this into a win would be pretty easy, either Kremwhip an army (probably knights and I already have a Heroic Epic unit) or Sushi your way to space. Afraid I don't really have the desire to do that though.

[darrelljs]

Showoff :neenernee.

I got Stonehenge, but made a mistake in going for the Oracle (Metal Casting). Those beakers and forests should have gone to the Great Lighthouse

Agreed, The Great Lighthouse really lets you get away with a lot of things.

EDIT: I also took one city off of Mansa and one off the Barbarians, so you out settled me by 17 to 11, with time to spare. I re-iterate that Globe/Kremlin is probably the best combo for most maps.

Darrell