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Good thing Trump gave Erdogan his support and lost us a valuable ally in the region all while not consulting any NATO allies, or lets be honest consulting anyone? (if he did consult, he doesn't have anyone but yes men left around him anyways). And the US got the hatred of the region and a weakening of NATO. Pure genius.
THE CRAZY THING! Literally no one will remember this come election time. Trumps handling of foreign politics isn't even in the top 5 voter issues. So to answer a previous comment, "YES, Americans are idiots".
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(October 2nd, 2020, 15:40)Mjmd Wrote: Empires and democracies rarely go from peak to ruins governed by dictators. Empires rise and fall over time. Systems slowly weaken to the point of collapse. The failure of an elected body to stand up to a leader when that leader only cares about their power has been the downfall of more than 1 democracy. Never take freedoms for granted and assume nothing can happen.
I'm not saying Trump will end up a dictator, but the pattern of a president pushing his power with impunity is not a good precedent. It may not be today, but blatant attempts at voter suppression and pure tribalism is not a good sign. Neither is using power to try to get other countries to help influence your rule.
I would say this forum has more history nerds than most political conversations. We all know things change.
Remember when Obama said I have a pen? thats pushing power...And I see that many people see the request for ID and beeing and american citezen like voter suppresion, and is blatant because democrats say (they say trump killed all covids, which is not true) at least were i live everyone of us in the day of vote we go to the pols with our ID's and vote.
What power used Trump to influence his rule? Rusia? well even the Rusia colusion was true, Trump wasnt in power then. Yes the times are chanching and after 8 years of a democrat president there was a republican one, and the dems talked about impeach even before he was invested, that you can call hatred.
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(October 2nd, 2020, 16:12)mackoti Wrote: (October 2nd, 2020, 15:40)Mjmd Wrote: Empires and democracies rarely go from peak to ruins governed by dictators. Empires rise and fall over time. Systems slowly weaken to the point of collapse. The failure of an elected body to stand up to a leader when that leader only cares about their power has been the downfall of more than 1 democracy. Never take freedoms for granted and assume nothing can happen.
I'm not saying Trump will end up a dictator, but the pattern of a president pushing his power with impunity is not a good precedent. It may not be today, but blatant attempts at voter suppression and pure tribalism is not a good sign. Neither is using power to try to get other countries to help influence your rule.
I would say this forum has more history nerds than most political conversations. We all know things change.
Remember when Obama said I have a pen? thats pushing power...And I see that many people see the request for ID and beeing and american citezen like voter suppresion, and is blatant because democrats say (they say trump killed all covids, which is not true) at least were i live everyone of us in the day of vote we go to the pols with our ID's and vote.
What power used Trump to influence his rule? Rusia? well even the Rusia colusion was true, Trump wasnt in power then. Yes the times are chanching and after 8 years of a democrat president there was a republican one, and the dems talked about impeach even before he was invested, that you can call hatred.
Why are you so invested into trump? What do you know about trump?
Do you know how many people have been detained in concentration camps on the border with mexico?
How many right-wing militias have been emboldened by trump?
Trump is the physical representation of all of the worst qualities of America.
"I know that Kilpatrick is a hell of a damned fool, but I want just that sort of man to command my cavalry on this expedition."
- William Tecumseh Sherman
October 2nd, 2020, 16:16
(This post was last modified: October 2nd, 2020, 16:18 by Mjmd.)
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Oh presidential power and tribalism have been increasing for a while. But its not a good logical argument to say, "look the other side also sucks". Trump is just taking it to the next level (or 3 above), so the question historically is do keep going that direction? We expect unrealistic things from our presidents, therefore giving the expectation of power, which has been turning into real power. With that power comes corruption and abuse.
EDIT: I will also state all the recent talk about the mandate of the people has been giving me a historical shivering in my bones.
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And Trump's insistence that people not wear mask, him making fun of safety measures has killed people. Stop with this demagoguery mackoti "oh no he didn't DIRECTLY kill them". He created a situation that led to more deaths than would have happened otherwise. He refused to send out masks by mail, he refused to follow the advice of health professionals.
"I know that Kilpatrick is a hell of a damned fool, but I want just that sort of man to command my cavalry on this expedition."
- William Tecumseh Sherman
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(October 2nd, 2020, 15:40)Mjmd Wrote: Empires and democracies rarely go from peak to ruins governed by dictators. Empires rise and fall over time. Systems slowly weaken to the point of collapse. The failure of an elected body to stand up to a leader when that leader only cares about their power has been the downfall of more than 1 democracy. Never take freedoms for granted and assume nothing can happen.
I'm not saying Trump will end up a dictator, but the pattern of a president pushing his power with impunity is not a good precedent. It may not be today, but blatant attempts at voter suppression and pure tribalism is not a good sign. Neither is using power to try to get other countries to help influence your rule.
I would say this forum has more history nerds than most political conversations. We all know things change. Genuinely curious, has there ever been a dictator that was a cause, not a symptom? Not saying that the system isn't capable of throwing one yet, but it won't be a septuagenarian.
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(October 2nd, 2020, 16:11)Mjmd Wrote: Good thing Trump gave Erdogan his support and lost us a valuable ally in the region all while not consulting any NATO allies, or lets be honest consulting anyone? (if he did consult, he doesn't have anyone but yes men left around him anyways). And the US got the hatred of the region and a weakening of NATO. Pure genius.
THE CRAZY THING! Literally no one will remember this come election time. Trumps handling of foreign politics isn't even in the top 5 voter issues. So to answer a previous comment, "YES, Americans are idiots".
Trump has been openly opposed to NATO, thinks US pays too much compared to the other members. Which may be true, but NATO also gives them tremondous influence.
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(October 2nd, 2020, 16:18)Commodore Wrote: (October 2nd, 2020, 15:40)Mjmd Wrote: Empires and democracies rarely go from peak to ruins governed by dictators. Empires rise and fall over time. Systems slowly weaken to the point of collapse. The failure of an elected body to stand up to a leader when that leader only cares about their power has been the downfall of more than 1 democracy. Never take freedoms for granted and assume nothing can happen.
I'm not saying Trump will end up a dictator, but the pattern of a president pushing his power with impunity is not a good precedent. It may not be today, but blatant attempts at voter suppression and pure tribalism is not a good sign. Neither is using power to try to get other countries to help influence your rule.
I would say this forum has more history nerds than most political conversations. We all know things change. Genuinely curious, has there ever been a dictator that was a cause, not a symptom? Not saying that the system isn't capable of throwing one yet, but it won't be a septuagenarian.
There is a true historian here folks!
Again I don't think the US systems are failing that badly yet. Needs another 20 years and a major worldwide disaster.
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On Trump being fascist, if he seizes power after losing the election, then you'll know for sure. He's been pushing the whole "we can't know what the real votes are!" narrative, which is what he'd use.
Anyway Trump is being rushed to the hospital right now. Will he survive like Boris?
Bobchillingworth
Unregistered
(October 2nd, 2020, 16:15)GeneralKilCavalry Wrote: Why are you so invested into trump? What do you know about trump?
Do you know how many people have been detained in concentration camps on the border with mexico?
How many right-wing militias have been emboldened by trump?
Trump is the physical representation of all of the worst qualities of America.
Please forgive poor ignorant mackoti; he's the product of a depraved experiment by the government of Nicolae Ceaușescu, wherein infants were repeatedly dropped on their heads to create a docile & pliable workforce. Ironically, the compounded brain damage has led to him feeling entitled to loudly shill for America's closest equivalent to the cruel Romanian dictator, obstinate in his opposition to all arguments contrary to his terrible opinions.
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