American Politics Discussion Thread

[Cyneheard]

If they have evidence there was a problem, they need to take it to court.

The courts have been absolutely shooting down these things constantly. Because their allegations are baseless and not well-founded in law.

If Dominion voting machines were an issue, then show the evidence. Point is to court cases involving that allegation.

And if we were trying to steal this election, do you REALLY think we wouldn’t have done better down-ballot? Come. On. Biden without the Senate is going to struggle to do anything.

Reality is that Joe Biden has won, and you’re just relaying conspiracy theories about Dominion Voting Machines rather than admit reality.

[suboptimal]

I remind everyone that no democracy in either direction has actually happened yet.  The The Republicans are using the courts to induce states to follow their own laws, like PA trying to count late ballots after the legally specified deadline.  I'm actually not sure how I feel about that - if a state violates its own laws, is that an internal issue of only the state's concern or should the federal government have authority to enforce that?

I agree the PA and many of the other lawsuits have merit, its just hard to shake the feeling they were filed to give the appearance of widespread fraud, especially considering the number of ballots they impact are a few orders of magnitude below the margin of victory.  You pose an interesting question, since its a federal election it feels like the Supreme Court should have final say, but I have no idea.

Darrell

Well, last time a loser went after this crew's win it wound up in the Supreme Court. And got slapped down.

A key difference between that time around and this one is the vote margin.  The 2000 election was decided by 500-and-change votes in a state whose results decided the entire election.  One of the hurdles that going to need to get cleared this time around is that the margins are significantly wider and require cases to succeed in multiple states.  A fraud case that tries to disqualify 200 ballots might get through but it's also just as likely to get dismissed as moot because the votes at issue don't change the result.  The current case in AZ just had a Notice of Partial Mootness filed by the Trump/GOP lawyer this afternoon because the case doesn't cover enough votes to change the outcome in AZ.

[Cyneheard]

Suboptimal is right.

If this was coming down to a 3000-vote margin in Georgia (so more than 2000 but not by a ton), this would be a very different conversation.

Extraordinary claims (and “Trump really won this election” when he’s down this much in 3 essential states is an extraordinary claim) require extraordinary evidence.

Prosecutors that Bill Barr assigned to look for election malfeasance have told him there was none:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-...story.html

[Jowy]

Look at the Republicans falling in line as Trump refuses to concede and tries to overthrow democracy.

They are trying to prevent an overthrow of democracy through illegally and fraudulently cast and counted votes.

(Well, I know they're just trying to win, they're not acting on any principle, but that is the principle that makes it possible.)

I remind everyone that no democracy in either direction has actually happened yet.  The media reporting on the vote so far means nothing.  What's real is the electors designated by each state and how they record their votes in the electoral college.  The Republicans are using the courts to induce states to follow their own laws, like PA trying to count late ballots after the legally specified deadline.  I'm actually not sure how I feel about that - if a state violates its own laws, is that an internal issue of only the state's concern or should the federal government have authority to enforce that?

All those Republican politicians falling in line behind Trump know exactly what they are doing. You may not, other Trump supporters may not, but they do.

[T-hawk]

Reality is that Joe Biden has won, and you’re just relaying conspiracy theories about Dominion Voting Machines rather than admit reality.

Reality is that nobody wins anything until the electoral college says so. Reality is that there are still questions that can be investigated and time to investigate them.

Why are you worried? If the Dominion machines were fine, then nothing changes, heck Biden even becomes more legitimized. If the Dominion machines were reporting sufficiently incorrect totals, then we should correct that, right?

[Cyneheard]

Look at the Republicans falling in line as Trump refuses to concede and tries to overthrow democracy.

They are trying to prevent an overthrow of democracy through illegally and fraudulently cast and counted votes.

(Well, I know they're just trying to win, they're not acting on any principle, but that is the principle that makes it possible.)

I remind everyone that no democracy in either direction has actually happened yet.  The media reporting on the vote so far means nothing.  What's real is the electors designated by each state and how they record their votes in the electoral college.  The Republicans are using the courts to induce states to follow their own laws, like PA trying to count late ballots after the legally specified deadline.  I'm actually not sure how I feel about that - if a state violates its own laws, is that an internal issue of only the state's concern or should the federal government have authority to enforce that?

All those Republican politicians falling in line behind Trump know exactly what they are doing. You may not, other Trump supporters may not, but they do.

This is the scariest part. The fact that they think it's OK to indulge Trump's fantasies because "what's the harm?" To sabotage the transition process in the middle of a pandemic. To talk about "the second Trump administration" when that's blatantly obviously incorrect.

Heck, even TRUMP nearly just said "the Biden administration." Just watch this thirty-second video.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1327365343652831233

[Cyneheard]

Reality is that Joe Biden has won, and you’re just relaying conspiracy theories about Dominion Voting Machines rather than admit reality.

Reality is that nobody wins anything until the electoral college says so.  Reality is that there are still questions that can be investigated and time to investigate them.

Why are you worried?  If the Dominion machines were fine, then nothing changes, heck Biden even becomes more legitimized.  If the Dominion machines were reporting sufficiently incorrect totals, then we should correct that, right?

Show. Me. The. Court. Cases.

If you're saying there's an actual issue, then show the court cases where this is coming up. Show me what this case actually is. Where are there actual allegations that someone is confident enough to put before a judge and the legal process?

Because right now all I'm seeing is baseless conjecture. And baseless conjecture is not a valid reason to admit the reality - that Biden has won and it's time to focus on what that means.

[Jowy]

Reality is that Joe Biden has won, and you’re just relaying conspiracy theories about Dominion Voting Machines rather than admit reality.

Reality is that nobody wins anything until the electoral college says so.  Reality is that there are still questions that can be investigated and time to investigate them.

Why are you worried?  If the Dominion machines were fine, then nothing changes, heck Biden even becomes more legitimized.  If the Dominion machines were reporting sufficiently incorrect totals, then we should correct that, right?

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/11/trump-...ted-votes/

There you go.

[The Black Sword]

You can (and should) investigate any potential fraud, while recognising it is very unlikely to have occurred, and even more unlikely to overturn the vote leads that Biden has. Stating the first fact without being very clear about the 2nd seems very dangerous and irresponsible to me given how divided the US appears. It is even more dangerous coming from someone like Trump who has such clout with his base. The end result will be to create seeds of doubt about the election process in a certain proportion of his supporters, it's very hard to see that not being the case. That seems like a pretty bad thing for democracy and the country, but it benefits him so he does it anyway.

[Gustaran]

Why are you worried?  If the Dominion machines were fine, then nothing changes, heck Biden even becomes more legitimized.  If the Dominion machines were reporting sufficiently incorrect totals, then we should correct that, right?