American Politics Discussion Thread

[Gustaran]

... Stating the first fact without being very clear about the 2nd seems very dangerous and irresponsible to me given how divided the US appears. It is even more dangerous coming from someone like Trump who has such clout with his base. The end result will be to create seeds of doubt about the election process in a certain proportion of his supporters, it's very hard to see that not being the case. That seems like a pretty bad thing for democracy and the country, but it benefits him so he does it anyway.

+1

Just read a few replies in Trumps twitter posts, in which he bashes Fox News. Part of his voter base seems to want to migrate to OANN and Newsmax because Fox News is too liberal. No matter what the result of any investigation is, these people will never accept it if it contradicts Trump.

[suboptimal]

Reality is that Joe Biden has won, and you’re just relaying conspiracy theories about Dominion Voting Machines rather than admit reality.

Reality is that nobody wins anything until the electoral college says so.  Reality is that there are still questions that can be investigated and time to investigate them.

I won't dispute that it's not over until the Electoral College votes.  Well, OK, I view that as a constitutional formality.  For practical purposes it's over once all the states have certified by the Dec 8th deadline.  I also won't disagree with the assertion that questions can be asked and answers sought.  The disconnect is in the questions being asked in the public fora (social media, press, public appearances) and the actual accusations being brought where there's actually a minimum standard of evidence. In the former it is claimed that thousands (millions?) of ballots should be tossed due to improprieties. In the latter so far only a couple of hundred ballots, if that, were in dispute in each case.  The one or two procedural cases alleging large scale fraud or malfeasance were dismissed for relying solely on hearsay or being based on a complete misunderstanding of how the process actually worked (as in the Detroit case).  The AZ case I cited earlier is still alive but only because the allegations affect enough ballots to change the outcomes of two smaller down-ballot races - the effect of that lawsuit on the presidential and senate races were declared moot by the GOP's own lawyer and those races are no longer being litigated.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

T-Hawk and his fellow hogs are banging on some bullshit about the dominion voting machines, but as Jowy's link pointed out, when you follow back the human centipede, the source is... a forums post on thedonald. That's it. A nonsense rumor spouted by some dipshit loser posting with their idiot friends.

Between T-Hawk's idiot opinions on the Covid-19 crisis it is safe to assume that anything coming out of his mouth is drivel and should be ignored out of hand.

[Serdoa]

The thing that makes this really sad is imaging the opposite situation. Trump won and the Dems would want to investigate if there was voter fraud. You can ask yourself T-hawk, if you would argue the same towards Republican voters - that it is just fair process to investigate all allegations, that we have to wait till the EC really voted before we declare Trump winner - as you do now towards Democrats. Don't answer that to me though, just answer it to yourself. 

We talked before the election about decency and as you stated there is nowhere in the constitution (or any law) the requirement for a politician to act decently. I guess the same will be true for the transfer from one administration to the next. There is no laws that permit the former administration to get the next one set-up. The thing is: The only ones being punished with that behavior are the people themselves. I don't care which political party you vote for, everyone should be upset if politicians hold their office hostage in order to gain political power. Your country is divided - not because you all differ that much, but because you accept behavior you would condemn if roles were reversed.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

lmao didnt T-Hawk get upset about decorum earlier

bitch how many ponyjars has he filled up

[Jowy]

Guys. Don't google ponyjar.

[Serdoa]

Now I'm scared, care to enlighten us Jowy? 

Also: I'd prefer we refrain from personal insults. I do not agree with T-hawk and I find some of his statements to be reprehensible. But in the end, the only thing we can influence is how we behave ourselves, not how others behave. I'd rather we show that civility is not optional but a necessity in such political discussions (and really generally in life) and maybe others will take note and do the same, making these discussions for all better.

[Jowy]

Now I'm scared, care to enlighten us Jowy? 

Also: I'd prefer we refrain from personal insults. I do not agree with T-hawk and I find some of his statements to be reprehensible. But in the end, the only thing we can influence is how we behave ourselves, not how others behave. I'd rather we show that civility is not optional but a necessity in such political discussions (and really generally in life) and maybe others will take note and do the same, making these discussions for all better.

What came up was a progression of pictures of a My Little Pony toy in a jar, with an ever-rising level of cum(?) filling the jar until it was fully submerged. Thanks for burning that image into my mind Nicolae.

[mackoti]

... Stating the first fact without being very clear about the 2nd seems very dangerous and irresponsible to me given how divided the US appears. It is even more dangerous coming from someone like Trump who has such clout with his base. The end result will be to create seeds of doubt about the election process in a certain proportion of his supporters, it's very hard to see that not being the case. That seems like a pretty bad thing for democracy and the country, but it benefits him so he does it anyway.

+1

Just read a few replies in Trumps twitter posts, in which he bashes Fox News. Part of his voter base seems to want to migrate to OANN and Newsmax because Fox News is too liberal. No matter what the result of any investigation is, these people will never accept it if it contradicts Trump.

I think many will not but most will accept.And denying the investigation will be worst because they will say something is there to hide.If I would be democrats and knowing I donne nothing wrong I would gave  republicans enough rope to hang themselves and stay relaxed and have a good laugh.

[Cyneheard]

... Stating the first fact without being very clear about the 2nd seems very dangerous and irresponsible to me given how divided the US appears. It is even more dangerous coming from someone like Trump who has such clout with his base. The end result will be to create seeds of doubt about the election process in a certain proportion of his supporters, it's very hard to see that not being the case. That seems like a pretty bad thing for democracy and the country, but it benefits him so he does it anyway.

+1

Just read a few replies in Trumps twitter posts, in which he bashes Fox News. Part of his voter base seems to want to migrate to OANN and Newsmax because Fox News is too liberal. No matter what the result of any investigation is, these people will never accept it if it contradicts Trump.

I think many will not but most will accept.And denying the investigation will be worst because they will say something is there to hide.If I would be democrats and knowing I donne nothing wrong I would gave  republicans enough rope to hang themselves and stay relaxed and have a good laugh.

The thing is - EVERYONE involved with these elections (such as career prosecutors that Bill Barr assigned to the case) is saying there's nothing. The courts are handling these allegations appropriately. Pretending that there's anything serious behind them is a lie.

In courts, we are doing what you're saying. In the public sphere, however, it's important to clearly point out "these arguments are nonsense," because they absolutely are.

I'm literally asking for any actual evidence to investigate, and T-Hawk and everyone else who's clinging to this belief that Trump is going to miraculously win this election can't provide any that's survived any scrutiny by the court system.