American Politics Discussion Thread

[Jowy]

All I can suggest is to support the progressives.

If you'd indulge me I'd love to hear your case for why I should do that.

Darrell

As the largest economy in the world, I think they could treat their citizens much better. Things like paid sick leave, paid leave to take care of your newborn child, paid vacations, higher minimum wage, rights to unionize, affordable access to education and health care, removal of for-profit prisons and restructuring of the prison system for rehabilitation, higher standards and accountability for the police force, larger social security net, rights to your own body, separation of church and state. The way I see it, there is nothing crazy on this list that couldn't be achieved. The rich at the top will continue to be the rich at the top, it's just that the other 99.9% gets a few more bread crumbs to live more comfortable lives.

Without getting into every progressive idea and the merits there of I wanted to address a larger point. A lot of what I've seen has been "Democrats should act like they won the election". The truth is however that 'Trump lost the election' Also, then sowed doubt and division and finally tried to overthrow our basic democratic principles. If Democrats aren't careful they are going to be facing Trump again in 2024 where Americans have mysteriously forgotten that Republicans tried to overturn an election. History has shown people have a remarkable short memory on these kind of things and I have very little faith in Americans overall.

You are correct. That is why I think it is important to vote and show support for the progressives. That support will continue to grow and eventually there will be enough support that for other politicians it will be beneficial voting wise to campaign on these issues and implement them.

[Mjmd]

My point was that people may be voting Democrat as more of an anti Trump / pro democracy vote. If Democrats assume they can then do whatever they want, they may lose some of those voters. As a reminder Democrats passed a version not far off of Romney's healthcare plan and then lost every branch of government. I don't expect people to know a lot of history, but that is recent enough people should be able to remember right?

[darrelljs]

As the largest economy in the world, I think they could treat their citizens much better. Things like paid sick leave, paid leave to take care of your newborn child, paid vacations, higher minimum wage, rights to unionize, affordable access to education and health care, removal of for-profit prisons and restructuring of the prison system for rehabilitation, higher standards and accountability for the police force, larger social security net, rights to your own body, separation of church and state. The way I see it, there is nothing crazy on this list that couldn't be achieved. The rich at the top will continue to be the rich at the top, it's just that the other 99.9% gets a few more bread crumbs to live more comfortable lives.

I completely agree with the bolded part, but I'd also say there is nothing on this list that really differentiates the progressive wing of the party (which I'm thinking of as Sanders/Warren in the Senate, and "the squad" in the House) from a median Democrat. Maybe I'm misinformed, it happens way too often .

Darrell

[Jowy]

As the largest economy in the world, I think they could treat their citizens much better. Things like paid sick leave, paid leave to take care of your newborn child, paid vacations, higher minimum wage, rights to unionize, affordable access to education and health care, removal of for-profit prisons and restructuring of the prison system for rehabilitation, higher standards and accountability for the police force, larger social security net, rights to your own body, separation of church and state. The way I see it, there is nothing crazy on this list that couldn't be achieved. The rich at the top will continue to be the rich at the top, it's just that the other 99.9% gets a few more bread crumbs to live more comfortable lives.

I completely agree with the bolded part, but I'd also say there is nothing on this list that really differentiates the progressive wing of the party (which I'm thinking of as Sanders/Warren in the Senate, and "the squad" in the House) from a median Democrat.  Maybe I'm misinformed, it happens way too often .

Darrell

I am more likely to be the one misinformed out of us two lol. Good if so, let's see if anything gets done in the following years.

[darrelljs]

I believe there was enough of a combination of illegitimate rule changes plus some actual fraud that it's likely to have swung enough states and the election.

How can you possibly believe that?

https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/lin...ly-elected

Trump and I, we’ve had a hell of a journey. I hate it to end this way. Oh my God, I hate it. From my point of view, he’s been a consequential president, but today, first thing you’ll see. All I can say is a count me out. Enough is enough. I’ve tried to be helpful, but when this Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled four to three, that they didn’t violate the constitution of Wisconsin, I agree with the three, but I accept the four. If Al Gore could accept five-four he’s not president, I can accept Wisconsin four to three.

Pennsylvania. It went to the Second Circuit. So much for all the judges being in Trump’s pocket. They said, “No, you’re wrong.” I accept the Pennsylvania Second Circuit that Trump’s lawsuit wasn’t right. Georgia, they said the secretary of state took the law into his own hands. He changed the election laws unlawfully. A federal judge said no. I accept the federal judge, even though I don’t agree with it. Fraud. They said there’s 66,000 people in Georgia under 18 voted. How many people believe that? I asked, “Give me 10,” and had one. They said 8,000 felons in prison in Arizona voted. Give me 10. I got one. Does that say there’s … There’s problems in every election. I don’t buy this. Enough’s enough. We’ve got to end it.

I mean this is Lindsey Graham saying these things .  Or read the transcript of Trump's call with Raffensperger.  A point by point refutation of all the allegations.

The, read the multiple efforts by Republicans to assault one person/one vote.  If this is about democracy for you, you're on the wrong side.

Darrell

[darrelljs]

My point was that people may be voting Democrat as more of an anti Trump / pro democracy vote. If Democrats assume they can then do whatever they want, they may lose some of those voters. As a reminder Democrats passed a version not far off of Romney's healthcare plan and then lost every branch of government. I don't expect people to know a lot of history, but that is recent enough people should be able to remember right?

The down ballot success of Republican candidates supports this thesis.  In my mind 2024 is a race between amnesia and legal efforts to disenfranchise lowering Democratic voter turnout vs. demographic shifts increasing their share of the overall pool of eligible voters.  And if you think 2020 was bad, if the Republicans somehow manage to win 2024 and are facing an even smaller minority party rule scenario in 2028....

Darrell

[MJW (ya that one)]

TX-06 special election coming up. Bellweather, a must win in order for DEMs to realistically do well enough in 2022 to nuke filibuster ; Lean R

[Jowy]

I could very well be wrong, but I don't think Democrats will do themselves any favours by trying to appeal to the right. Just look how close the race was even after 4 years of chaos. Those Republican voters are loyal, they are not going to budge. I would focus on trying to reach those who are not voting.

[Mjmd]

I could very well be wrong, but I don't think Democrats will do themselves any favours by trying to appeal to the right. Just look how close the race was even after 4 years of chaos. Those Republican voters are loyal, they are not going to budge. I would focus on trying to reach those who are not voting.

You aren't wrong, but I think there is a key. Republicans are rather short on actual policy in recent years. Most of their campaigning is "fear the radical liberal left". Democrats need to be careful not to play into that fear (warranted or unwarranted). Example: sure American health care is a joke around the world, but lord help you if you try to change it. So for instance instead of trying to pass a Medicare for all plan that will give the Republicans ammunition, maybe try to fix and improve the Affordable Care Act. While its original passage caused a lot of uproar, Americans as mentioned have a rather short memory, so might be a better method.

Ending the privatization of prisons is a good example of a progressive policy that you can do while also not rousing the passions of voters. Trying to fix systems that already exist is usually not seen as "radical" as trying to implement new policy. It is certainly going to be a balancing act, but I'm not sure most Democrats understand they are even in such a situation. Sometimes this isn't going to be possible, but they should try to pick their battles carefully. 

I've said this before but Democrats can't afford to move more than a half step ahead of where American society is ready to be.

[Charriu]

While we are at the Affordable Care Act. The ACA is more popular then Obamacare even though both are the same. 

Naming matters