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Quote:![[Image: Civ4ScreenShot0418.JPG?dl=1]](https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4lsbl758pwh3fu/Civ4ScreenShot0418.JPG?dl=1)
The known tech owners feature was requested by The Black Sword. The number tells you how many players that you have met do own this tech. This is no new information. Rather it's information already available through C&D trickery.
I think this feature is questionable.
1. The information is not always available. If there are many players and your commerce-output is low (like in early game of RB-PB59 or CF-PB88) you usually can't find out by C&D trickery.
2. It makes this important information too easy visible for the players. It is not "Dev-intended" to get this information without Alphabet, if you are able to do so by expert Know-How, you kind of "deserved" this information, otherwise not. 
Of course the first argument is the essential. I think it would be ok, if this BUG-feature is only available with Alphabet, if this is possible. 
April 14th, 2021, 13:27
(This post was last modified: April 14th, 2021, 13:27 by Charriu.)
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It's true that especially in the early turns you are not always able to determine those KTB numbers. The reason why I did not implement it as close to the "expert Know-How" is because that would have been a lot more complicated to get done.
Yes it is a lot easier to get this information. The whole reason The Black Sword brought this feature up was to level the playing field between newbs and pros and players with a lot of time at hand and those who don't. I absolutely agree that this - like a lot of information one can gather - is not "Dev-intended" like for example almost everything you can find out via C&D, watching the score increase and decreases, finding out about improved tiles in the fog of war, seeing the buildings in foreign cities inside the fog of war. At last this was implemented to make everybodys live easier and fairer for the different capabilities of players.
But what is definitely possible is to tie this information to Alphabet and I think that is worth discussing.
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(April 14th, 2021, 13:27)Charriu Wrote:
Yes it is a lot easier to get this information. The whole reason The Black Sword brought this feature up was to level the playing field between newbs and pros and players with a lot of time at hand and those who don't.
But what is definitely possible is to tie this information to Alphabet and I think that is worth discussing.
Leave as is. Anything that levels the playing field is a good thing.
"Superdeath seems to have acquired a rep for aggression somehow. In this game that's going to help us because he's going to go to the negotiating table with twitchy eyes and slightly too wide a grin and terrify the neighbors into favorable border agreements, one-sided tech deals and staggered NAPs."
-Old Harry. PB48.
April 14th, 2021, 18:22
(This post was last modified: April 14th, 2021, 19:00 by Amicalola.)
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I really like this feature as is; I think it is perfect for exactly what you mentioned. Entering RB as a new player is a trial-by-fire as is, and a fair change that lowers the barrier to entry is a good thing. It's one of the best QoL features in CtH, and was a great idea by TBS.
Also, options which lower the busywork needed to gather information increase the time available to make interesting decisions with that information. That's a good thing, regardless of how much time you have. I would rather spend my limited game-time thinking about how to use the ktb, not figuring out whether I actually have it.
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I remember trying to do the C&D as a new player in my first two pit bosses and it felt awful and like a chore. I do think for very large pitbosses where this information wouldn't be as easy to notice early maybe some kind of game option?
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I would really prefer to leave it as-is. It might not be as the devs intended, but so is a lot of other improvements in the mods. It even makes thematically sense, as you get a vague overview of how much better everyone else is, but no information on those behind (or even) with you.
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Please leave it as it is. It just rids us of a tedious chore. If inevitable, remove it for the first 2 columns (as a game option which we would enable in big games?)
I see no reason to ty it to Alphabet, what has that to do with it? It would also disable the feature for most players for large parts of a game.
Although, in the same spirit of reducing chores, an F4 tech window column with "techs that player knows" unlocked with Alphabet, which would show those techs that can be deduced from their "can research" and "can/can't trade" columns would be awesome, but likely require a lot of programming and opportunities for bugs.
Another issue (which doesn't belong here) is that Alpha still may need a buff. I love RtR's moving OBs there, but I think Charriu will have considered this and decided against, whether due to far from home or other reasons.
April 15th, 2021, 05:54
(This post was last modified: April 15th, 2021, 05:55 by Charriu.)
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(April 15th, 2021, 05:43)Miguelito Wrote: Another issue (which doesn't belong here) is that Alpha still may need a buff. I love RtR's moving OBs there, but I think Charriu will have considered this and decided against, whether due to far from home or other reasons.
This isn't off the table. I just didn't do the change so far, because I planned to change the espionage system in a big way. But I think will do that OB change in the next version for the following reasons:
- The big espionage change is still far away for me. I first want to get CtH into a more or less stable version.
- This big change might be too much for CtH.
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