American Politics Discussion Thread

[Charriu]

When enough people are vaccinated we can return to a new normal. Unfortunately the willfully unvaccinated deny us that option.

No.  Your GOVERNMENTS are denying you that option.  They can drop the measures any time they want.  The redder US states did a year ago and everything is fine.

Your government is abusing you, and until you understand that and fight back, you're going to get abused more.

Seriously.  "Look what you're making me do to you until you comply with my demands."  That is exactly the language of an abuser, and they never stop.

How can you be so paranoid and see a conspiracy behind everything the government does. After all the government consists of people like me and you that I and others voted into office. They aren't all purely evil beings that only seek to profit from their position. Of course it's ok and necessary to be critical about decisions being made, but that's why we have a free and critical press. But in the end the government isn't your enemy.

And in the case you feel like the government is your enemy because it's now controlled by the party you don't like, then maybe you are not really interested in this thing called democracy.

[T-hawk]

Government is always the enemy. Government cannot be trusted with power, because the people in government are the ones who seek power.. I'm interested in this thing called freedom.

Anyway, do you understand the first point? Governments create restrictions, not the virus or unvaccinated people. Restrictions end when enough people force their government to do it.

[Charriu]

Government is always the enemy.  Government cannot be trusted with power, because the people in government are the ones who seek power..  I'm interested in this thing called freedom.

Then you are truly lost.

[Mjmd]

Government is always the enemy.  Government cannot be trusted with power, because the people in government are the ones who seek power..  I'm interested in this thing called freedom.

Anyway, do you understand the first point?  Governments create restrictions, not the virus or unvaccinated people.  Restrictions end when enough people force their government to do it.

I find your first part hilarious as I believe I remember you going along with all of Trumps election lies very freely and no one who isn't completely blinded by politics can call what Trump did anything other than a blatant power grab. I 100% agree though, there is a reason government measures should be discussed and why freedom of press is so important. 

The core job of a government is to protect its populace. The populace doesn't usually stand for the government if they think its doing a bad job of protecting them. If Trump had even mildly shown leadership and gotten Covid under some control I feel confident he had a good chance of reelection despite everything else. However, A LOT of people voted specifically because they thought he wasn't doing a good job with Covid. I'm not positive Biden has been doing all he can due to politics sadly (both because of opposition but also because he wants reelection). 

I also want to stress that many countries and in fact many blue states have lifted the again very unimposing restrictions once they thought Covid was under control (to whatever their acceptable level). The blatant politicization of something that by all rights should never have been politicized to begin with has sadly caused weakness in combating. Weakness that will only continue hurting and "inconveniencing" everyone no matter the party.

[superdeath]

Government is always the enemy.  Government cannot be trusted with power, because the people in government are the ones who seek power..  I'm interested in this thing called freedom.

Anyway, do you understand the first point?  Governments create restrictions, not the virus or unvaccinated people.  Restrictions end when enough people force their government to do it.

Some people sure, but to say it in that way makes me think you believe ALL people in the Government seek power. Thats not a healthy attitude. Maybe those that seek to be President.. but otherwise id say those that throw millions of dollars into lobbying (which should be illegal imo) are better examples.

[Mjmd]

I actually 100% agree with the premise. Remember politics is about power. If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself. Even politicians going in with good intentions usually have to start the slow descent into sacrificing parts of their soul to try to accomplish what they set out to do. I'm not saying its impossible to resist the corruption of power, I'm just saying its a lot rarer than you think.

Again, I just find the messenger of the premise hilarious.

I was going to do a whole separate post at some point about the problems in democracy (and US one specifically), but suffice it to say one of the advantages is that in theory it is better at preventing power grabs and we have peaceful transfers of power. But that requires checks to work and the populace to not be easily deceived by things like election lies......

[Brian Shanahan]

The evidence of what's already happened isn't enough?

We were told distancing would get us back to normal.  It didn't.

We were told masks would get us back to normal.  They didn't.

We were told vaccines would get us back to normal.  They didn't.

We were told mandates would get us back to normal.  They didn't.

We were told vaccine passports would get us back to normal.  They didn't.

We're now being told boosters will get us back to normal.  If you think they or anything else will, you are literally insane, doing the same thing and expecting different results.

If the authoritarians can destroy your freedom in an emergency, what you get is the authoritarians perpetuating a forever emergency.

It's not the fault of us who care that there is too many who didn't give a shit, including many in power. Doing what's right won't work when c. 30% demonstrate their hatred for humanity in a pandemic.

[Bobchillingworth]

I actually 100% agree with the premise. Remember politics is about power. If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself. Even politicians going in with good intentions usually have to start the slow descent into sacrificing parts of their soul to try to accomplish what they set out to do. I'm not saying its impossible to resist the corruption of power, I'm just saying its a lot rarer than you think.

Again, I just find the messenger of the premise hilarious.

I was going to do a whole separate post at some point about the problems in democracy (and US one specifically), but suffice it to say one of the advantages is that in theory it is better at preventing power grabs and we have peaceful transfers of power. But that requires checks to work and the populace to not be easily deceived by things like election lies......

The "government" is more than elected officeholders and affiliated political appointees, there's millions of civil servants and career professionals working on behalf of the public at the Federal, state, and local levels. I assure you that they do not all crave "power".

T-Hawk's notion that government is always "THE ENEMY" is the sort of absurd absolutist position I'd expect to hear from some sort of delusional militia junkie, but given that he's too effete to contemplate owning a firearm, I suppose it's just another indication of the radical media environment he's stewing in.

[superdeath]

I actually 100% agree with the premise. Remember politics is about power. If you think otherwise you are fooling yourself. Even politicians going in with good intentions usually have to start the slow descent into sacrificing parts of their soul to try to accomplish what they set out to do. I'm not saying its impossible to resist the corruption of power, I'm just saying its a lot rarer than you think.

Again, I just find the messenger of the premise hilarious.

I was going to do a whole separate post at some point about the problems in democracy (and US one specifically), but suffice it to say one of the advantages is that in theory it is better at preventing power grabs and we have peaceful transfers of power. But that requires checks to work and the populace to not be easily deceived by things like election lies......

The "government" is more than elected officeholders and affiliated political appointees, there's millions of civil servants and career professionals working on behalf of the public at the Federal, state, and local levels.  I assure you that they do not all crave "power". 

T-Hawk's notion that government is always "THE ENEMY" is the sort of absurd absolutist position I'd expect to hear from some sort of delusional militia junkie, but given that he's too effete to contemplate owning a firearm, I suppose it's just another indication of the radical media environment he's stewing in.

I assume what he means by "the government" is congress/president/supreme court.

[Bobchillingworth]

Entirely likely, but I doubt that's what T-Hawk meant, and I'm not sure how one should interpret full agreement with the premise of T-Hawk's statements.