American Politics Discussion Thread

[Mjmd]

So the quickest of googling the main two points seem to be
1) Building antibody protection is more predictable with the vaccine than naturally getting. (especially common in younger people who don't get as bad of cases)
2) The obvious chance of dying or major side effects is much higher with getting actual Covid. Mind people never think the bad things are gong to happen to them. Humans have a natural "it will never happen to me" you amplify that with misleading media coverage......

Edit: 3) the obvious taking of medical resources. Fun fact 1000 military personnel are being deployed to increase hospital capacity including 100 in WI.

[Charriu]

Initial post removed by request of other forum member

I think you are misinformed about vaccines in general. Vaccines are around for more then 100 years now and are well studied. They offer a better and more importantly safer protection then the real disease. The main purpose of a vaccine (active vaccine) is not to produce more antibodies then what the body deems necessary, but rather teach the body about certain diseases and how to fight them. Your immune system is not negatively harmed by a vaccine with regard to cancer cells for example or even other disease related issues. In general there is also no need to keep a control group because you always have enough parts of a population that can't get a vaccine because of their specific health issues.
With regards to "perma-tampering of the immune functions". Like I said vaccines are around for 100s of years and are well studied.

Initial post removed by request of other forum member

Do you mean mRNA vaccines? First of all most of what I said also applies to them. A lot of ground-level research went into them for decades and we know how they work. I can explain that more in detail if necessary. By now billions have been vaccinated with mRNA vaccines and with that we have enough data to evaluate the side effects. It's fairly safe to assume that no additional side effects will be discovered in 10 or 20 years.
Also also there are now also more then enough classical vaccines available, so you don't have to rely on the new mRNA stuff.

TL:DR The vaccines, be it mRNA or classical, are safe and work better then natural immunisation.

[Mr. Cairo]

More to the point, infection doesn't actually provide natural immunity of Covid. Right from the start there's been incidents of people getting infected with Covid more than once, and Omicron is even better at re-infecting people.

[T-hawk]

No, I didn't. Please stop deliberately misinterpreting my statements. Imprisoning someone is a lot different than keeping them from going to a restaurant or the movies. Considering a lot of people are starting to come around to the notion that the unvaccinated shouldn't be given much treatment or even let into hospitals if they catch covid, you should be thankful that minor restrictions are all that's being enforced.

You're being shortsighted and not thinking about where your statements lead to. That's exactly where it's going to go.

This thread has revealed that people don't know the history of the concentration camps. They didn't just start up at the stroke of a pen one day. It was gradual.

Jews weren't condemned into the camps on day one. It started slowly, by excluding them from certain jobs and industries. Then it became more public areas. Then they weren't permitted to live or work outside their ghettos, and then to not leave them at all. Only after ratcheting up the fear and hatred for several years like that, then the imprisonment camps started. As each stage became and seemed normal, the frenzy kept escalating to ever more atrocities. All in the name of so-called public "protection" and safety.

Every step of that is going to happen to the unvaccinated, unless it's opposed NOW.

"It's just common sense that the unvaccinated can't leave this neighborhood of their city." Show me what's going to stop that from happening. Or are you in favor of it?

"No crime"? So if it is made a crime you'd be OK with it? I don't think so, so don't talk about legality.

Again you're missing the intermediate steps. A democracy rules through LAWS and LEGISLATURES, rather than the endless parade of dictatorial executive orders that we're currently seeing. Democracies rule by law. Dictatorships issue orders.

If this happened, you would at least have the weight of process on your side. But your zealots don't care about law or order or process, you just want to implement what you want with whatever degree of force it takes.

What we've learned from the pandemic is that people LOVE dictatorship and fascism, as long as it's on their side.

Hell, how about driver licensing in general? Surely your safety when crossing the road means nothing when compared to someone's right to drive a vehicle regardless of their ability or capacity ? (/s)

And here's another great example of my point. Driver licensing is absolutely another area where seemingly-good state control escalated into more power. Driver licenses got hijacked into enforcement mechanisms for other things. You can't get or renew a license if you owe child support or back taxes. They are used to track and coerce the population into the involuntary servitude of jury duty. All things that have absolutely nothing to do with safety at all, and everything to do with government force and coercion.

Every expansion of government power will be hijacked and misused. Do not trust government, ever, for the system only acts to increase its own power at the expense of someone's liberty. That all sounds fine until that liberty is your own and you're in need of the rights and protections you just burned down.

[Jowy]

Lets get something straight

Current Chinese concentration camp



Area for people deemed detrimental to public health

Please stop using the term concentration camp.

He knows very well. If he really thought the alternative to a vaccination is a concentration camp, he'd take the vax.

[Jowy]

deleted as requested

[Jowy]

The anti-vaxx side of the argument comes out of ignorance.

[Mjmd]

The main problem is people think their side is either "fine, perfect, or not as bad as the other and therefore they don't need to change". I have 0 hope for meaningful campaign finance reform.

[Charriu]

Initial quote removed by request of other forum member.

It's quiet an interesting topic how all these different vaccines work:

Pfizer/Biontech and Moderna = mRNA: Tell the body directly via mRNA to produce the spike protein of the virus, which in turn causes a immune reaction aka teaching the immune system to recognize the virus with the spike protein

Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca and Sputnik V = carrier vacine: Take a harmless shell virus to carry the genetic code into the cells. There is tells the cell to produce the spike protein and similar things like with mRNA vaccine happen.

Novavax = protein adjuvant: brings the spike protein directly into the body from there the immune systems learns

Sinopharm and Covaxin: Kills the Coronavirus rendering it harmless. By injecting the now harmless Coronavirus you cause a immune reaction like with the other methods.

It's a very interesting topic and I recommend it to everybody even outside of pandemics. But in the end you are right the vaccine works by simulating a natural infection, The important factor of course is that in most cases a vaccine is a lot safer then risking the disease itself.

Initial quote removed by request of other forum member.

The virus and its disease are still in their beginning. I would guess and I'm quiet hopeful that in the next years the research into that topic will get better and the period between reapplication is extended. Then again if the virus keeps mutating fast we might end up in a similar situation like with the flu, which requires a new vaccine/reapplication every flu season. But that's why it so important to keep covid cases lower and vaccinate the worlds population so that the chances of mutation are reduced.

[Jowy]

deleted as requested

You need laws against corruption for those in power, but it's up to those corrupt people to enact these laws. Only way this ever happens is a grassroot movement and immense pressure from the voters. This is what needs to happen to start fixing America. When the people in power actually work for the betterment of the people and not their own self-interests, then positive change will start happening. It is very difficult to get the process started.