American Politics Discussion Thread

[AdrienIer]

Oh I'm not "implying" that nazi stuff should be censored, I 100% believe it to be necessary. Some of your comments here are actually illegal under french law and could get you to a tribunal if you were to publish them in a book for example. Basically while you see my position as supporting an ideology that won on the battlefield, we know first hand what those ideologies mean for the population, and are very thankful that many people fought against them and won. The last time people like you got their prefered people in power it cost millions of lives over half the world, and we don't want to have to go through that again.

The type of people you support would like to kill or "at best" send to their grandparents or great grandparent's countries quite a lot of french people who have never been there in their whole lives and have no intention of living there. It's literally the presidential program of one of our candidates. You're not an opponent with whom I can debate, you're an enemy to my livelyhood, possibly my life, and the lives of many people I know and love. If there was armed conflict between the people of your ideology and other people we'd be supporting very different sides (you'd be supporting the side with the literal nazis of course) and I'd be in favor of totally eradicating that side of yours. And I'm not saying that out of nothing, in the US some far right groups are actively preparing for civil war, and in France some of them are doing that too.

I'm willing to debate with free market capitalists on why their viewpoint is flawed and leads to the misery of many. But your kind only deserves to be put behind bars, not be invited to polite debates.

[AdrienIer]

I'm saying people in a free speech democracy were deceived into supporting a war. If you think Russia isn't putting some mad effort into spinning this for their population and international consumption I don't think there is much to discuss.

A "like" button is sorely lacking on this forum because I'd have pressed it on basically all of your posts so far

[Charriu]

I totally agree with Adrienler. Being tolerant to the intolerant is the death of tolerance.

[BING_XI_LAO]

I'm saying people in a free speech democracy were deceived into supporting a war. If you think Russia isn't putting some mad effort into spinning this for their population and international consumption I don't think there is much to discuss.

Why do you find it hard to believe that the Russian public wants Putin to intervene on the side of Donetsk-Luhansk, even more than Putin himself does? He already is responsible for Russia, Russians living outside the current border and getting into troubles are a liability and a dangerous prospect for him to support. That's why it took him 8 years to finally do this.

Consider that image I posted of the woman's facebook post in Cyrillic - I chat to a Russian, he says "btw my friend's GF was living in Donbass and here's her relief at the intervention."
Do you think Russians living in these regions don't have their won views which they communicate to Russians across the border? They have their language rights downgraded, they see things like the 50 Russian activists burned alive by Ukranian nationalists in 2014, they rebel, and more recently they get shelled by the Ukrainian army. But their point of view is crafted in a Kremlin office?

[Mjmd]

I think most people 8 years ago saw that Russia was at least considering this option then. I'm sure his timing has a dozen reasons behind it (pipeline, Covid, after Olympics, before US midterms, ect) Again, the rebels in eastern Ukraine are backed by Russia. Financially, equipment, and most are pretty certain their are Russia special forces involved. Russia WANTS this war. Its not a need, its not a demand that somehow organically grew. Russia has the power to stop. The party with the power is responsible (just as US was responsible for Iraq). I could go back and find tons of US public support for that war. Does that make it right?

Russia also made itself protector of orthodox Christians in the past. It should probably go attack Turkey next. (I still like my Mongolia should invade Russia analogy better, but eh had to fit this one in somewhere).

Darrell is correct. The reasons given do not justify death and destruction.

THE END

[BING_XI_LAO]

Oh I'm not "implying" that nazi stuff should be censored, I 100% believe it to be necessary. Some of your comments here are actually illegal under french law and could get you to a tribunal if you were to publish them in a book for example. Basically while you see my position as supporting an ideology that won on the battlefield, we know first hand what those ideologies mean for the population, and are very thankful that many people fought against them and won. The last time people like you got their prefered people in power it cost millions of lives over half the world, and we don't want to have to go through that again.

The type of people you support would like to kill or "at best" send to their grandparents or great grandparent's countries quite a lot of french people who have never been there in their whole lives and have no intention of living there. It's literally the presidential program of one of our candidates. You're not an opponent with whom I can debate, you're an enemy to my livelyhood, possibly my life, and the lives of many people I know and love. If there was armed conflict between the people of your ideology and other people we'd be supporting very different sides (you'd be supporting the side with the literal nazis of course) and I'd be in favor of totally eradicating that side of yours. And I'm not saying that out of nothing, in the US some far right groups are actively preparing for civil war, and in France some of them are doing that too.

I'm willing to debate with free market capitalists on why their viewpoint is flawed and leads to the misery of many. But your kind only deserves to be put behind bars, not be invited to polite debates.

I'm an Afrikaner and the Third Reich's defeat directly lead to my family getting ethnically cleansed from Rhodesia and subsequently South Africa by black supremacists, supported by both the Communist and Capitalist powers. Just like Western liberals are now supporting the oppression and violence visited upon Russians in the Donbass, and just like they enabled the eradication of hundreds of thousands of Christians in Iraq this century. Liberals consistently support terrorism and mass murder, though of course I understand that you personally don't intend it. 

Your ideology is a threat to my people but I can still debate you. Maybe that's just because people with minority views naturally are used to arguing while those in the majority aren't. 

"send to their grandparents or great grandparent's countries quite a lot of french people who have never been there in their whole lives"
Are you referring to Muslims? Because something like a third of them are Islamists which means they hate France and French people. They are the ones engaging in violence right now in France including against Jews. Even a Bernie Sanders supporter I was chatting to recently admits that the existence of these Islamist communities in places like France is a long-term strategic threat.

You refer to far-right groups preparing for civil war in the US, why don't you refer to the real violence that is already happening which is the murder rate getting pushed up by at least 25% thanks to BLM's weakening of the police? That's an extra 5,000 or so people whose blood is on the hands of tolerant liberals because they decided to support criminals as long as they're black.

And as for extremism and racial hatred, how about the anti-Rittenhouse lies pushed by liberals including several people in this thread, which incited a black supremacist who had already posted in 2020 about "knocking old white people down", to drive his car into a festival parade killing old white people ("Dancing Grannies") and several children. Did you even hear about that Waukesha racial terrorist attack the day after Rittenhouse's acquittal? Probably not because you live in a fantasy land. In the real world, it's liberals who devastated the middle east, who incite racial hatred (though it's against whites so maybe you believe the SJW excuses for why it's okay), and who enable most of the violence that's actually going on right now both in the West and abroad. And yes I do count Bush as a liberal, considering he instituted a racial socialist regulation forcing banks to give loans to blacks and hispanics more readily, and he called Islam a religion of peace which is just stupid if you know anything about Muhammad's strategic genius and incredible victories.

Even in out of the way places like Burma, the West is right now supporting ethnic terrorist movements because they want to topple a China-friendly regime.
But liberals don't bother following this or thinking about this.

On January 6th at the US Capitol there was only one actual definite murder, which was a black policeman deliberately shooting Ashli Babbit, an unarmed white woman in the neck, on video. The second possible murder was the police killing Roseanne Boyland if she was deliberately beaten or crushed to death. Ashli Babbit's murderer didn't get arrested and got a favourable media interview, because just like liberals support incitement to racial hatred, they also support police brutality - as long as it's against patriotic whites.

As for the "literal Nazis" you mention, they are basically total retards. In the Ukraine they oppose Russia and support NATO/EU/USA which is a massive self-own if they could look beyond their anti-Russian butthurt. In the US the full-on Nazis hate Donald Trump for being on good terms with many Jews. I've literally spent the past month trolling Nazis on Gab because for some reason they are all simps and start crying if you crack a rape joke. And even back in the days of WW2, the Italians had to be pressured into going along with the Third Reich's deranged levels of anti-semitism and the Japanese were bemused by it.

Then there's the fact that Zemmour is Jewish lol. Apparently his family got ethnically cleansed from French Algeria - a similar experience to mine.
I think Macron will win the election, but Zemmour understands the genocidal threat which the French are under.

We are still very much in the liberal era but liberals aren't reproducing compared to the religious right. Political views are partly heritable just like personality. You're destined to disappear from history and your ideology will be held up as a warning.

It's also not good enough for you to just debate free market capitalists. Capitalism controls the leftwing side of the West just like it controls the rightwing: Trump got only a minority of billionaire donations. China and Russia are the only great powers sovereign from international finance, and yet you oppose them? Regulations and taxes aren't a threat to corporate interests as long as there's a liberal democratic system they can steer so that the taxes and regulations kill off competition. They are only threatened when the state is more powerful than financial interests like in China and Russia, and perhaps also when there's a truly populist democracy they can't govern so easily. If Trump hadn't had his personnel choices sabotaged when they took Flynn away from him, we would have seen an example of that and in a very limited way we did.

[BING_XI_LAO]

I think most people 8 years ago saw that Russia was at least considering this option then. I'm sure his timing has a dozen reasons behind it (pipeline, Covid, after Olympics, before US midterms, ect) Again, the rebels in eastern Ukraine are backed by Russia. Financially, equipment, and most are pretty certain their are Russia special forces involved. Russia WANTS this war. Its not a need, its not a demand that somehow organically grew. Russia has the power to stop. The party with the power is responsible (just as US was responsible for Iraq). I could go back and find tons of US public support for that war. Does that make it right?

Russia also made itself protector of orthodox Christians in the past. It should probably go attack Turkey next. (I still like my Mongolia should invade Russia analogy better, but eh had to fit this one in somewhere).

Darrell is correct. The reasons given do not justify death and destruction.

THE END

Actually the intervention reflects Putin giving up entirely on Nordstream 2, and neither he nor the Ukrainians want to stop gas going through the Ukraine regardless of the conflict.
Luckily Russia can sell its gas also to the Asians who aren't insane neo-nazi nationalists or liberal ideologues.

Russia does need to support its people, including with arms, how could it just leave them hanging out to dry?

And while we're at it, attacking Turkey would be foolish - but actually nice if it happened. A total victory would mean lifting the Turkish blockade on Armenia, restoring northern Cyprus to the Greeks, restoring the Hagia Sophia which is and always has been a Christian Greek cathedral, and so on.

[BING_XI_LAO]

I totally agree with Adrienler. Being tolerant to the intolerant is the death of tolerance.

In my opinion, this internal contradiction means that tolerance can never be a fundamental value, because of the necessity of intolerance to the intolerant.
Clearly therefore tolerance is a non-fundamental and partial value which can never be fully applied and which  only manifests on a pragmatic basis. it can only ever be an auxiliary, secondary value or a state of affairs.
Other values which are actually fundamental have to decide the nature of the culture.

Also as far as tolerance and free speech on forums is concerned, I think it's fine to tolerate intolerant liberals, might not be a good idea to give them mod positions though.
Frankly it's boring being on fringe totally uncensored forums like Gab, because there's too few liberals to argue with.

[T-hawk]

But your kind only deserves to be put behind bars, not be invited to polite debates.

I totally agree with Adrienler. Being tolerant to the intolerant is the death of tolerance.

No, that just makes you no better than those you claim to oppose. This is just might-makes-right.

You combat speech you don't like in the marketplace of ideas and free discourse. Not by banning it. That just makes you what you seek to destroy.

The people on the "right side of history" are usually those advocating freedom and liberty, not destruction and silence.

[Charriu]

And while we're at it, attacking Turkey would be foolish - but actually nice if it happened. A total victory would mean lifting the Turkish blockade on Armenia, restoring northern Cyprus to the Greeks, restoring the Hagia Sophia which is and always has been a Christian Greek cathedral, and so on.

I doubt that. I'm pretty sure they already have Steam Power and therefore obsoleted the Hagia Sophia.