American Politics Discussion Thread

[Mjmd]

Should the US intervene anywhere there are oppressive dictatorships?

I've concluded "no, never".  The odds of improving the situation just seem too low given the cost is always high.  I supported defending Kuwait against Iraq, but would not Ukraine against Russia (or Taiwan against China) simply because the cost we'd bear is regrettably too great.

Interestingly one of my managers is Russian heritage from Kiev.  None of her relatives feel Russia is swooping in to save them from oppression, rather that all the trouble has been instigated *by* Russia and left alone they get along just fine with native Ukrainians.  Just one person speaking about one family, but interesting nonetheless.

Darrell

What if we were better at it? I posted a loose formula some ways back, but ya its tough to judge even without geopolitics coming into it. Afghanistan was between Iran and Pakistan. Two countries that were never going to let a pro west democracy pop up next to them. Even without the corruption and normal problems getting a government established, the US definitely was not prepared / realistic here.

The one that always keeps me up is: do you send aid to areas where you can't be sure it actually gets to the people who need it and doesn't end up in the hands of warlords thereby extending conflicts.

Should we be sending aid to Afghanistan civilians even if it props up the group that kicked us out? I think there is plenty of blame to go around and the US is at least partial responsibly..... Again I'm glad I'm not making these decisions.

[Charriu]

But I will say that this intervention is almost the absolute minimum intervention a state could do, short of never making any interventions at all.
It's an intervention that's right next door, in only a segment of a neighbouring country, in an area populated by the majority ethnic group of the intervening country, with the intent to integrate them into an existing state (Russia).

Well that "segment of a neighbouring country" is now the whole country. But I'm sure the Pro-Putin people find another excuse for that. So much for "absolute minimum intervention"

[Mjmd]

That was a poorly timed video...........

Damn I was really hoping for just #2.

[superdeath]

That was a poorly timed video...........

Damn I was really hoping for just #2.

So what did i win?

[Boro]

But I will say that this intervention is almost the absolute minimum intervention a state could do, short of never making any interventions at all.
It's an intervention that's right next door, in only a segment of a neighbouring country, in an area populated by the majority ethnic group of the intervening country, with the intent to integrate them into an existing state (Russia).

Well that "segment of a neighbouring country" is now the whole country. But I'm sure the Pro-Putin people find another excuse for that. So much for "absolute minimum intervention"

Its called "in for a penny, in for a pound".

[mackoti]

While I realy hate what Russia is doing there is some true in what BIng is saying, Ukraine is treating his minorities very bad. What will happen now is that the one consider themself ukrainians will be treat bad, becasue you know Putin is a despot.

[superdeath]

Saw this on Facebook:

The Ukraine & Russia crisis in simple terms for those that have no idea what is going on.
-Ukraine used to be in an abusive relationship with Russia, feeding him, letting him use her car & giving him whatever he asked for until she built up the confidence to call it quits back in 1991
-Since then Ukraine has been working on herself, becoming a strong independent woman with help from friends like France, America, Poland etc. offering her support, loaning her money, & helping her find her way.
-Ukraine has been enjoying being single for 30 years & looking forward to continuing to grow & create new friendships.
-Now Russia being the toxic Ex that it is wants her back, and doesn’t want her meeting new people or creating any new relationships.
-A couple of weeks ago Russia started sitting in the front of Ukraine’s house & when her friends ask him what was he doing there, he said “Oh nothing, just getting a little bit of exercise in, that’s all.”
-After her friends told her that Russia was potentially getting ready to do something bad to her, he said “They’re lying, they just want you to be scared of me & that’s not what it is”
-Yesterday Russia broke into Ukraine’s house, beating her up & “taking advantage” of her while on Livestream & double dog daring any of her friends to do something about it & if they do want the smoke, Russia got that thang on him.

[Boro]

And I was sent this.

[darrelljs]

There are several articles on it from Hungarian sources and e.g. Human Rights Watch, but nothing in depth from mainstreams sources (that my Google skills could find). I had certainly never heard of it before you and mackoti commented on it.

Darrell

[Boro]

http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webpr...3511=66333

http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webpr...401=517233
(article 5, just google translate it)