[Spoilers] Defining the phrase "€˜Hung Like a Horse"€™: Pb & the Kuriotates

[Brian Shanahan]

I've read through the whole thread (over 3 days) and I must offer my thanks for such an enjoyable read. So consider me a dedicated lurker PB.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 118:

T118 opens with the splashscreen for Stirrups – I like the tech description for this one, so I’ve stolen it out of the xml.

They had loops at the end of their saddles for their feet.
For all their supposed horsemanship, the Hippus couldn't manage to hold the horse with their legs.
I laughed when I saw the longbows their cavalry carried.
They would be impossible to fire while mounted.

Then they stood up in their stirrups and drew back their bows.

-Percium, after the Slaughter of Nine Fields

And no, now is not the time to ask why Stirrups enables Centaur Archers of all things.
Let's just pretend this is a computer game. :rolleyes:

Iskender sent an email, along with the accompanying OB request:

Hi there

Finaly I settled a coastal city. However, it looks like we don't have
trade routes (I guess it requires Sailing), but I went ahead and
offered Open Borders in game anyway.

Iskender

No reason not to accept it, so I do.

I also took a look around the map, and my roving eye spotted that the Khazad have at some point discovered the magic of roads:



Not sure when he picked that tech up; doesn’t matter, just glad he’s building them.

You can also see in that screenshot that the most recent Hunter out of Kwythellar has been named Rosebud (Columbo anyone?), and she is heading North too.
Pixiefoot and the Settler have stacked up and will settle c2 in two more turns.



Which calls for a note to Selrahc I think:

Greetings Winter King,

Just a polite heads-up that the Kuritotates nation is hoping to grow by one more city in the very near future, to be located in the river bend, 1E of the dungeon.

This will be a small runt settlement, with no cultural output expected anytime soon, so please do not worry about any cultural clashes.
It’s main purpose is to pick up the Horse resource 1SE.
Let me know if you have any serious issues with this.

We’ve spoken in the past about how you definitely have at least one or more Horse resources in your claimed territory.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Sounding a little Hoarse Boy-King

Worker-wise, with only a couple of exceptions, the worker force is split 1:2 between Caledor and Kar Karond.

Kwythellar and Caledor grow on ending turn, lots of units produced including the first Hawk!
Pay attention to the name of that unit next turn, literary reference coming up... (hey I have to pretend to be intelligent somehow).




Demographics:

Nothing happening.
So let’s have some more diplo and awful puns yay!


Diplo:

I meant to tag on a response to this in the turn email, but yeah, go ahead.
I've got plenty of horses in my immediate reach, I have no designs on the place you're talking about.
Although it's not like you have any real use for horses since centaurs are a resourceless unit.

Hey Selrahc,

Thanks, that's great to hear.
And yeah, you're right about the resourceless units, but it doesn't feel right to be building Centaurs without Horses!
On the positive side, each settlement is an additional +2 commerce for you that I won't be getting!

Kind Regards,
Pb, Friendly "Neigh"bour Boy-King

And sent late:

Greetings Fleetfooted Riders of the South,

Sorry for the late reply, the Kuriotates are overjoyed to accept your Open Borders offer and gain another trading partner!

However, we are entering into this agreement with the understanding that, at this time, this OB is for trading only and not scouting.
Any Kuriotates units wanting to enter Hippus land will first request permission, and hopefully vice versa.
If you want to discuss this, feel free to catch me on chat.

As for Sailing, yeah unfortunately we don't have it yet.
As mentioned in our last talk, I think a trade road will be the best option - I roughly estimate that we could get one up within 20 turns(?)
My workers are still really busy trying to improve my second and fourth city.
If that timeframe is too slow and you'd like to speed it up, let me know.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Friendly Boy-King

Aren't I just a wonderful, friendly neighbour?

You would want me next door wouldn't you?

<<Crickets chirp as Tumbleweed bounces across the road.>>

Wouldn't you?

<<A bell begins to toll in the distance "dong...dong....">>


And speaking of 'dongs'... let's catch up with some recent comments. (Sorry, busy weekend).

[pocketbeetle]

Courageous Valorous Aggressive Water-walking Nightmare-Mutant-Stigmata-Sentry Raider Centaur Archers from Avelorn, of course!

Add in Morale from Ride of the Nine Kings, Aggressive/Raider trait combo, Form of the Titan, Conquest, Apprenticeship, Command Post, and Theocracy, and you've got yourself 20xp monsters to play with!

What it might look like (pretend it's holding a bow). Hey, it's the closest picture I could find!

I see Profane has decided to compete with Ilios in the (still non-existent but one day to be created) AAA Major Cookie League!

As well as being a funny and highly cookie-worthy post, he pretty much hit the nail on the head with all the possible promotions too.
Running through them quickly:

• Courage: level 1 Spirit spell, acts as a second Medic I that stacks. (So Medic I = 10% faster heal, Medic I + Courage = 20% faster heal).
  Kurio palace gives Spirit mana, so I will definitely have this.
  
• Valor: Law level 3 spell, +1xp per battle, +10% resistance to magic.
  Not worth the archmage slot, probably won’t get.
  
• Aggressive: can be obtained from Adaptive trait switch.
  I think I’m more likely to go Raiders if I choose a militaristic trait.
  Commando Centaurs sounds more scary.
  
• Water Walking: Level 2 Water spell. Kurio palace gives water mana (as does OO shrine), unlikely to be of much use on this map, but could be good for a surprise attack.
  
• Nightmare: +1 str promotion to mounted units, given if you have access to Nightmare resource (Hell terrain horses).
  
• Mutant: no explanation needed, Chaos level 2 spell.
  
• Stigmata: granted by the AV shrine, gives str bonus based on AC counter.
  
• Sentry: +1 visibility promotion that can be gained free from the Tower of Eyes world wonder.
  
• Raider: no explanation needed.
  
• Ride of the Nine Kings: world wonder that grants +10xp to mounted units built in one city, plus free (temporary) Morale promotion (+10%str, +10% city attack, 10% chance to wear off each turn).
  
• Form of the Titan: +2xp to all units produced, available at Warfare tech, requires level 6 unit to build (26xp), double speed build time with Copper.
  
• Various civics:
  Apprenticeship - we’re already in.
  Conquest (converts food -> hammers, +2xp) - not sure if I’ll permanently be in this or just in emergencies to get Avelorn spamming units.
  Theocracy – I’m always a bit slow to get this civic, but might try and get there earlier than normal.
  
• The only ones understandly not included are the temporary ones like Bless, Dance of Blades etc.
  (Oh, saying that, missed RoK Shield of Faith which is a permanent +10% str). On the other hand, I didn't know about Nightmares giving a bonus until I looked it up, so thankyou.
  

The above might sound like a lot, but quite a few are very minor, and pretty much all are also available to other types of units.
The Melee line in FFH2 tends to be the dominant one (at least vs the AI, remember I'm a military MP noob) thanks to the Enchanted blade (+20%) and metal (Bronze/Iron/Mithril) buffs, as well as a superior upgrade path.

The Ride of the Nine Kings can help redress the balance a little bit, and I’ve already identified it as a priority wonder.
Problem is it comes quite late, at the Warhorses tech. Despite this, you can see I’m lining myself up to get the wonder in my positioning of c2.
Selrahc doesn’t understand why I want Horses, quite possibly thinks I’m just using them as an excuse to set up a forward/mildly aggressive settlement plant.
There may be some truth in that, but I also know that the Ride of the Nine Kings wonder requires a source of Horses, and I don’t want to be reliant on other players’ charity come that time.

Moving to the present, the Form of the Titan is a possible goal I think.
Producing these 4xp units from Kwythellar sucks, 6 xp would be much nicer.
I could (and may) achieve this using Conquest, but the problem is that would require me to leave my nice +1 food-to-farms Agrarianism.
The Form of the Titan would allow more flexibility, and is why I’ve prioritised c3 next to the Copper resource.



Note that is my closest Copper resource!
Still slightly unsure about the positioning, would prefer to settle on the Copper, but that area is quite flat and doing so would make c6 invalid.
Could even settle c6 first before c3.We’ll see, still deciding on that.
The other requirement, a 26xp unit, may be more problematic for peaceful me.

Moving on to other matters:

Don't know about pimping, but I think your first Centaur should be called Priapus... :D

Are Roman names fine too? Like Mutunus Tutunus or Biggus Dickus...

Ewww!
You’re suggesting this to a guy whose recent unit names were Pixiefoot, Cloverleaf and Rosebud...
In truth I was wondering what naming scheme to use with the Centaur Archers (bear in mind I’m intending to produce a shedload).
I had half a mind to continue the Worms theme, but now you guys have gone and foisted me with a theme based on an enlarged part of the male anatomy!

I’ll leave it open to votes from other lurkers.
And please people, don’t make me name my precious Centaurs after freaking penises… however well it may (admittedly) fit with the thread title.

I've read through the whole thread (over 3 days) and I must offer my thanks for such an enjoyable read. So consider me a dedicated lurker PB.

Welcome!
Glad to have you aboard Brian.

[Darkmantle]

The real question is what do you plan to actually do with all those centaurs? Conquest would gain you nothing except settlements, while allowing all of your rivals to gain further power. Are they mainly to deter anyone from stopping your tower of mastery push?

[Mardoc]

You could, of course, go with classical centaur names from Greek mythology: Pholus, Chiron, Antimachus - see here for an extremely extensive list: http://www.kentauren.info/menu/index.htm.../Names.htm . You could even pick particularly appropriate names - Nessus for a centaur who poisons or is poisoned, Chiron for your longest lived centaur, Pholus for a bait unit who prompts an immense Centaur war once he's picked off.

I also am a new reader - I can't claim to be dedicated, though - it's too much fun figuring out if your ploys work. :neenernee So I'll have to confine myself to the more tangential of your questions, like this one!

[pocketbeetle]

Oh dear, four days since the last update.

The real question is what do you plan to actually do with all those centaurs? Conquest would gain you nothing except settlements, while allowing all of your rivals to gain further power. Are they mainly to deter anyone from stopping your tower of mastery push?

Mainly defense, but enslaving all of my rivals' cities into settlements is not...entirely... out the question and sounds like a pretty positive thing to me.

Tower of Mastery?
Nono, I'm probably not going for that. (Did I burble it somewhere?)
I'm still umming and ahhing over what victory condition I should even attempt, I never entered this game with one specifically in mind (except not culture).
Think my last idea was Altar of Luonnotar, which isn't really a good victory condition to go for (requires 6 GPros and some production), but why not.
My attitude is one of 'crossing those bridges when I come to them'.

You could, of course, go with classical centaur names from Greek mythology: Pholus, Chiron, Antimachus - see here for an extremely extensive list: http://www.kentauren.info/menu/index.htm.../Names.htm . You could even pick particularly appropriate names - Nessus for a centaur who poisons or is poisoned, Chiron for your longest lived centaur, Pholus for a bait unit who prompts an immense Centaur war once he's picked off.

Hi Mardoc and welcome. =)

Thankyou for a really nice first post.
I also like your suggestion a lot, and have decided to make an executive decision on that being the new naming scheme for Centaur Archers (sorry Ilios, Profane, I couldn't make myself do it ).

I'm currently behind on turn updates, stupidly busy and struggling to keep up.
So motivating posts from new people like yourself and Brian, as well of course the regulars, are really appreciated.

I also am a new reader - I can't claim to be dedicated, though - it's too much fun figuring out if your ploys work.

And are they?

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 119:

Soooo… where are we?

To the East of Caledor, Pixiefoot and her accompanying settler move into position in the river bend.
No sight of any wildlife (except for Tubby in the SW), which is good.
Cloverleaf heads NE.



In Caledor the first Kurio Hawk, Kes, sets off for its maiden flight.
I guess I should write something quickly about them.



Hawks:
Start (arguably) of the FFH2 broken-ness.

• Three range, miniature zeppelin.
  
• Available very early on, allows players to defog the map quickly.
  
• Cheap at 13h, costing less than a 16h warrior.
  
• Cannot attack - there is no air combat in FFH2.
  Thus Hawk reconaissance cannot be countered/prevented.
  
• Allows for an extensive sentry net, ala invisible spies.
  
• Unlimited movement – can move across the map from one city to another in one turn.
  
• Can also be carried by specific recon units (Hunters/Beastmasters, limit one each).
  
• Hawks can detect Invisible units (stealthed Assassins, CoE units etc).
  Note there is a difference between invisible units and invisible animals such as Spiders. Hawks cannnot see Spiders.
  
• However since Hawks are often carried by Hunters etc, who can see invisible animals, means together they make very effective sentry pairs.
  
• Haven’t tried it personally, but I read somewhere that Hawks can be used to carry items quickly between cities, simply by attaching it to the Hawk.
  

In short, anyone not using Hawks in a MP game will be at a severe disadvantage.

Here’s why, let’s take a look at Selrahc’s capital and garrison:



Relocating Hawks between cities only costs one of their two movement, so they can switch city and fly recon in the same turn.
Rebasing to a unit (Hunter) fully takes up their movement however.

So Kes relocated to Avelorn and took a flight over Mt Stelvio, turns out Selrahc’s only got two warriors there. No sign of the Priests.
While I realise the hypocrisy of criticising another player for only having two warriors garrison, when I’ve only got one in Avelorn (and no river defense), he still needs to be careful.
All it takes are three Centaur Archers located invisibly 1NE of Avelorn, and in two turns I’m 2:1 favourite to raze that capital.

I’m also quite impressed/worried at how well developed those hamlets (some villages) are around Silent Night. He’s done a good job there, wonder if those GA turns where I focussed on working mines was a mistake.


In the South the glfh is chopped, which combined with some tile trickery means that the Monument will complete in Kar Karond this turn. Wahoo.
Vanilla Ice is also embarking on his second epic journey, this time to discover the crypts of the Calabim.



The new worker produced in Avelorn, now named Bob Downey Junior, moves 2SE and will work on a road to Diso.

I note that no-one has yet made a suggestion for what the settlement naming scheme is.
I’m going to take that positively and assume none of you want me to jump off a building () and so are all waiting for the second settlement is founded before amazing me with your mindreading skills! (Clogz vs Clogs, I’m still picking my jaw off the ground).


Demographics:

1111(3)11116
That 3 needs work.


Diplo:

Hello wise King Pocketbeetle

Yes, I offered to open the borders with trade in mind and I agree
that the right of passage should be decided separately.

I should be able to lay down a road north within 20 turns

Iskender

[Maksim]

And no, now is not the time to ask why Stirrups enables Centaur Archers of all things.
Let's just pretend this is a computer game. :rolleyes:

Ask and ye shall receive:

The Kuriotate palace's waiting room was designed to impress guests - oversized fireplace, rare animals' heads on the walls, a large tapestry depicting the signing of the Pact with the giant Defenders of the Realm subtly reminding any foreign guests that right now, Kuriotates had the biggest clubs - three of them, to be precise.

The room's primary occupant, His Majesty's private secretary, was of advanced years, and got his post a long time ago, when he was but a simple scribe, as a reward for asking questions of His Majesty without fear or flattery. Whether this was a true reward or just the king's twisted sense of humor, he often wondered - especially on days like this, when the Majesty requested a compilation of recent achievements to be presented.

First, the new throne for His Royal Highness. Crafted by master Heron himself, it was engraved with pearls sacred to merfolk - a small and curious race taken under Kuriotates' protection. Previously, they assisted the fishermen and helped commerce by moving cargo barges quickly around the capital's many canals, but with the throne completed and their fealty assured, many were now being employed in the artisans' shops around town.

His Majesty sat on the throne, praised Heron's skills and sent him away, but just as the craftsman was about to leave, asked mischieviously whether "his backside looked big in this". The secretary had to spend the next few hours watching over Heron, making sure the poor man did not break down crying.

The next achievement was the opening ceremony of Deruptus' Brewing House, now the official monopolist and supplier of ale to all corners of the God-King's realm. This was a personal coup for the secretary, as the old breweries were run by ratmen and their ilk, with the biggest cut of the profits going directly to Veez, not treasury.

The event, though, was a brink away from disaster - the Ilian ambassador showing off with his iced drinks almost caused a diplomatic incident when the mayor of Caledor gave him the key to the city in return "for another pint, my good fellow". As for coming to work the next day, that was one thing the secretary regretted bitterly, as that morning he personally authorized Veez to inspect the brewery's facilities at own discretion in the future; anything to make the rat and his annoying squeak go away.

Finally, there was the matter of research into matters occult and theoretical. His Majesty found an old Patrian warfare manual from past ages that clearly showed warriors riding horses into battle, using a saddle and stirrups, thought that the same could be achieved with centaurs and requested the Elder Councils to put their minds to this task.

The brave elder who tried to put a saddle on the centaur got kicked so hard that he could not remember his own name for three days but that did not stop him - a series of contraptions were designed to place a saddle on a centaur from a safe distance via a system of pulleys and ropes. The goal was to place the saddle and retreat to a high vantage point which the centaur could not reach.

The elder succeeded at his task, and proceeded to saddle several more centaurs, until one of them picked up a bow and arrow and shot him.

Overall, this was felt to be an interesting approach to warfare, and soon unsuspecting centaurs all over the Kuriotate empire found that only regular practice in archery helped them to avoid being saddled by cackling bearded men of advanced age.

The secretary paused in his writing, interrupted by the door opening...

[Darkmantle]

For the naming of god forsaken outposts of the Kuriotates empire I humbly suggest Soviet closed cities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_city

* Arkhangelsk Oblast: Mirny
* Astrakhan Oblast: Znamensk
* Republic of Bashkortostan: Mezhgorye
* Chelyabinsk Oblast: Ozyorsk, Snezhinsk, and Tryokhgorny
* Kamchatka Krai: Vilyuchinsk
* Krasnoyarsk Krai: Zelenogorsk, Norilsk, Zheleznogorsk and Dikson.
* Leningrad Oblast: Sosnovy Bor
* Moscow Oblast: Krasnoznamensk, Zvyozdny gorodok, Vlasikha
* Murmansk Oblast: Gadzhiyevo, Ostrovnoy, Polyarny, Severomorsk, Snezhnogorsk and Zaozyorsk
* Nizhny Novgorod Oblast: Sarov
* Penza Oblast: Zarechny
* Primorsky Krai: Bolshoy Kamen and Fokino
* Saratov Oblast: Shikhany
* Sverdlovsk Oblast: Lesnoy and Novouralsk
* Tomsk Oblast: Seversk
* Vladimir Oblast: Raduzhny

Don't they just sound perfect for tundra iceballs!

As for victory, running a bunch of priests until you get some altars is boring. Your leader is posessed by a ancient and terrible golden dragon. Does the prospect of reducing the world to a bunch of client settlements while the mighty Kuriotates rule from their distant kingdom appeal to you or to Veez? With Engineering you can strike 9-12 tiles into anyones empire once you switch over to raider.

Can you honestly tell me that wouldn't be more fun?

Also I've been wondering for a while now, Is the road network specifically designed to deal with raiding forces. For example NE NE of Caledor, you have a road link up to the hill which would be a great place for some defending centaurs to dig in. Also the road link down south runs along the ridge of hills which would be perfect for speed bumping any strike force.

[Mardoc]

And are they?

Why, of course, mighty emperor! All live in such fear of your mighty warriors and ratmen (especially ratmen) that they wouldn't dare to doubt the face value of your words! Those who are not intimidated by your soldiers' pointy sticks are certainly intimidated by your sparkling wit or your regal posture!

Of course, these foreign types know nothing of deception in any event. What does a Svartalfar know of lies? Vampires would never consider that someone might not tell the entire truth in their dealing with others! Heck, neither the dwarves nor the horselords even understand how to hide from a foe! And the frosty types are such jolly happy souls.