American Politics Discussion Thread

[Mjmd]

@Gustaran - YES. 1000% times yes.

@SD - again its an us vs them mentality. If you are on a side, your side can do no wrong and the other side is always out to get you. An attitude of being suspicious of those in power or who want power would go a long way.

[Mjmd]

T-Hawk - false equivalence fallacy continues to not be your friend. Sadly you are not alone here. Lets assume for sake of argument every bad thing facing America is the Democrats fault 100% (they aren't; if you want schooled in other things like inflation I can of course).  IT DOES NOT MATTER. The continuance of our democracy matters FAR MORE. Democracies generally fall when in deep economic trouble and triple digit inflation ect. We are really selling our democracy short here.......

[Mjmd]

My family is gone for a few days, so sure, lets break down all the problems in America that T-Hawk lays at Democrats feat:

They don't care about stuff like Jan 6th or the FBI raid because it doesn't affect their lives. 

American's not caring about justice is sadly something I have to agree with T-Hawk on.

runaway prices and inflation

Oh boy. Lets try to condense this and I admit I'm probably just grasping the edges:

PARTIALLY there is a little bit of Democrat fault as they did pass some bills for payments during Covid pandemic and the infrastructure bill. While the democrats have reduced the deficit more than Republicans the fact US operates at a deficit also contributes. The infrastructure bill  was LONG overdue. Again we need more of these not less. Republicans usual target point is the payments to individuals, BUT this by far a more direct and effective way to prevent recessions than relying on fed rate changes or you know a $9 TRILLION quantitative easing program. Also, the $770 billion PPP program that is estimated at 75% fraud that Republicans never complain about during the same time period.... So Democrat spending maybe contributed some small portion to inflation, but just in this section alone its like what 20% of the money injected? 

So the big elephant in the room is the huge disruption to the supply chain from Covid. The huge change in buying habits. My 2nd major was in supply chain and I can't even pretend to comprehend the magnitude of the shift. The supply chain wasn't ready and wasn't set up for this. Supply chain by and large is free market capitalism at its finest, but it can't change on a dime. Now if you want expanded port facilities then look to above infrastructure build. China's increasingly harsh covid responses in particular has thrown huge wrench in things. For all those "we need to make stuff in the USA" this is actually a good thing. Its short term pain, but hopefully leads to some diversification of supply chains.

Russia war with Ukraine - food and ESPECIALLY fertilizer prices are big here. One of Biden's food moves was to allow insurance to cover farmers trying to get two harvests of certain crops.... the problem with that is a lot of farmers can't get the fertilizer. There is also the increased worldwide cost of fuel. I'll cover the climate side in a second, but another great argument for renewables is not to be dependent on actions of autocrat hostiles governments.....

Profiteering - Companies have taken inflation as a great excuse to raise prices, often beyond the the actual inflation of costs. Not across every industry certainly, but there certainly are some suspicious ones.

Just real quick on gas prices as it is a major driver to inflation. Speaking of Covid related issues. A lot of production and refinement was shut down during Covid just due to lack of demand. It takes a while to get those capacities back into full operation. With a worldwide energy market, the Russian war as mentioned is driving up prices. Oh also, see record quarter profits...... Certainly nothing to see there.  

Worldwide inflation - certainly various aspects of the above have contributed to other countries inflation problems as well (as well as others I'm unaware of no doubt), but worldwide inflation is naturally going to mean prices here rise too because we import so much stuff.

I want to note I have probably barely scratched the surface of inflation factors, but to blame it all on Democrats is laughable. Although yes party in power often gets the blame deserved or not, just the nature of politics. I do however expect better from you T-Hawk. This is an area where your clear bias is showing.

consumer-hostile energy policy in the name of climate alarmism

Speaking of: if you don't believe vast majority of scientist or casually looking at any temperature charts of your choice by this time, you may be drinking gasoline (substituted for lemonade). I do agree not all decisions make sense. I personally would probably have completed the keystone pipeline as the next Republican president will do anyways. I would have tried to get environmental issues addressed in compensation. Again, democracies don't necessarily produce effective policy as things are done to reward bases and campaign donors vs actual effective. That being said, we should be doing FAR more to address climate change. Lets assume for sake of argument all the smartest climate scientists and all the casual looking at temperature graphs is half wrong. The damaging effects currently being felt, plus HALF of the predicted, would more than justify further action. Side benefit of being developing those industries in the US instead of having to import. Side benefit  of not being beholden to Russia or the middle east on energy policy.

schools controlled by the unions while failing the kids and parents (why VA flipped governors),

I mean lets be frank VA was flipped with good old fashioned alive and well racism disguised as CRT fear. We need to be teachers are kids to think, not just indoctrinating. Being able to think is going to be really important in fast paced changing world. I actually think for the record we should teach the general principle of CRT in a more broad form early on. To me the broad principle is "groups in power will pass laws favoring them and laws designed to keep them in power". Do our country a world of good to learn that basic lesson.

masks and vaccines forced on toddlers, jobs and travel lost over blatantly illegal vaccine mandates. 

I'm not aware of any cases of it being forced on toddlers. That being said, we have had vaccine requirements for kids entering public school for a long time with no political push back, until now...... I've already stated my theory for straw man argument to cover Trumps failings in past posts. For the work place ones, we've again discussed the governments broad powers in regards to public health. I think most of the people worked up about these issues, have been told they should be worked up about these issues by right wing media, without actually thinking through past history or the cost in human life. There is definitely something to be feared from government in these instances (see Chinese evolved response), but again why we need to educate our kids in how to think with a historical base to draw on.

I'm sure I've missed things, but as stated literally none of it matters if I'm right or wrong on any of these. Transfer of power is one of the two key pillars of democracy. Republicans blasted that pillar with dynamite and are currently working with pickaxes on it still.

[superdeath]

T-Hawk - false equivalence fallacy continues to not be your friend. Sadly you are not alone here. Lets assume for sake of argument every bad thing facing America is the Democrats fault 100% (they aren't; if you want schooled in other things like inflation I can of course).  IT DOES NOT MATTER. The continuance of our democracy matters FAR MORE. Democracies generally fall when in deep economic trouble and triple digit inflation ect. We are really selling our democracy short here.......

T-hawk does make 1 point. Normal run of the mill Americans are stupid. They are very VERY selfish, and couldnt honestly care who is in charge so long as their paycheck is big, and their bills are small. If the government is screwing over someone else, or is dumping chemical waste into someone else's kiddy pool, they dont care, but if they can blame it on another party than the one that they like... the better.

Thats honestly the difference between your normal (ish) democrats, and your typical republicans. (at least in my opinion) Your normal run of the mill democrat wants things that will hopefully better society as a whole even if it doesnt affect themselves positively. But, they typically dont push hard for things that are seen as super radical, even if they believe in it. (pushing for more Pride-days/taxing the rich harder/ect) While your typical republican will try and push for policies that benefit them, and their neighbor, even if it hurts another section of the population. Now, they dont heavily push their views on others and generally just want to be left alone.

Ah, politics. Where both sides are dumb, the 3rd party is a joke, and Democrats would have a much better chance of winning every election if they didnt try and be super radical/jump ahead 50years at a time in progress..

[Mjmd]

The greatest argument against democracy is talking to the average voter.....  (edit another reason to educate children to be able to think and know history)

[superdeath]

The greatest argument against democracy is talking to the average voter.....

We need a like button.

[Mjmd]

This is a very interesting article about possible future scenarios:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archiv...se/670580/

Interesting article. Sadly mostly along the lines I've been thinking.

Consequently, there are two main ways to protect American democracy. The first is to reform the GOP, so that it’s again a conservative, but not authoritarian, party (à la John McCain’s or Mitt Romney’s Republican Party). The second is to perpetually block authoritarian Republicans from wielding power. But to do that, Democrats need to win every election. When you’re facing off against an authoritarian political movement, each election is an existential threat to democracy. Eventually, the authoritarian party will win.

This is an essential truth to democracy.

“Democracies can’t depend on one of two major parties never holding power,”

[Jowy]

The worst thing Trump managed to do was make the Republicans turn on democracy. Once a fascist Republican president manages to stay in the office when their term should be over, will USA ever see democracy again? Once you cross over that line, it is difficult to go back. If you go with the attitude "it's not gonna happen" until it actually happens, you'll be too late. A good start would be to make sure everyone involved with the Trump coup attempt will have to rot in jail.

[darrelljs]

Profiteering - Companies have taken inflation as a great excuse to raise prices, often beyond the the actual inflation of costs. Not across every industry certainly, but there certainly are some suspicious ones.

Evidence?

Darrell

[Mjmd]

Profiteering - Companies have taken inflation as a great excuse to raise prices, often beyond the the actual inflation of costs. Not across every industry certainly, but there certainly are some suspicious ones.

Evidence?

Darrell

Here is an overall article from CNBC. As I stated there are certainly sectors hurting as well which article points out.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/28/record-p...0inflation

A record July net profit margin reading from the National Association for Business Economics (NABE) survey shows that a majority of companies are successfully passing on increased costs to customers.

Now here is where a little bit of thought reading news comes in. Passing on costs successfully would equal the same profit not increased.

Here is a oil company specific one

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/29/exxon-xo...d%20profit

Now I'm not decrying companies making profit or even making record profits. There can even be valid arguments that companies are hedging against future inflation / issues (I personally suspect a mix of good and greedy reasons). But I am saying if overall profits are going up it means they are passing on more than inflationary costs in, thus causing more inflation elsewhere. Again, far far from the only issue causing inflation.