[68] Miguelito's famous last words, and Amicalola's sighs

[Amicalola]

One use case for Sailing is harassing our neighbours, rather than defense. Perhaps we send Thoth a visitor? Also, do you have any plans to improve the furs? That would be a nice boon.

This looks really good so far! Although surely the most boring outcome relatively speaking is a Miguelito/Amicalola victory.

How do you feel about a relatively early IW? Although certainly Pottery first.

The question is, is tearing up Thoth's nets worth 50h to us? Or could we maybe threaten coastal raids? Drop three shock axes and a spear on his iron ? (well that would be a lot of investment that would rot dead on the other side of the map, but maybe not totally unreasonable if it prevents praets for a good while. Probably infeasible and too late anyways)

Fur - the garrison seems strong enough atm yes, but it's a lot of worker labour, and the tile is not very good to work. The worker should improve the ivory next, after that we could consider it - do we want a second worker on this map? Probably yes, if only for combat purposes.

Fwiw vs both Commodore and Thoth (who was a pretty above average player in the old times) and their terrifying picks while we picked meme I see us as underdogs in this game.

What does iron accomplish for us besides the mine? Oh well the pig... Not sure though, against both aforementioned terrifying  picks we really really need Construction to feel safe for once, and I don't know if IW+AH provides enough benefit to justify the delay. But we can consider it.
Def Pottery and Priesthood first though (not sure if in that order or reverse).

I just like the fur for the happy, although I haven't logged in for a while so if we don't need it that's fine. It's more that I think we can do it now, and it will be much harder later, so even if we don't need the happy yet it could be worth in the long-term. Definitely yes to a second worker for combat reasons, and also I think we'll need it once granaries are in.

I actually don't hate the Thoth idea. Sure we lose the prisoner's dilemma while Yuri/Nauf win, but we also lose it if no one does anything about Agg/Cre Rome. Re: tearing up nets, that's also 30h for him and presumably a decent amount of food, so I'd think we win that trade. We're also incentivised towards an early MC, so it could be hard for him to punish even with galley spam. It also makes a Yuris-collapse much less likely, which is valuable to us.

I'm not sure how relevant this actually is, but my other hope of Iron Working is that if we chop the jungles north of blue dot, it makes defending against Comm much easier. But that could be a long-term worry rather than a short-term one. My strength is the micro, not the big ideas.

I would do Pottery/Priesthood in that order. I struggle to see how we'd lose Oracle in this field and getting Meditation. I am not very greedy with wonder dates normally, but when I have been it usually works out. What could possibly go wrong?

[Miguelito]

My strength is the micro, not the big ideas.

Then log in and do some !

Nah, dedlurkers' noblest task is to discuss big ideas, and it's been very helpful.
We can consider the iron commando mission in something like 5 turns? Possibly Kroth just research IW before t50, and it's moot (or is it?). It would involve a double axe from the cap at size 4 or 5, and a galley whip for 2 in Hastur. Can it work if we go in with a single galley (and send reinforcements asap)?

[Amicalola]

My strength is the micro, not the big ideas.

Then log in and do some !

Nah, dedlurkers' noblest task is to discuss big ideas, and it's been very helpful.
We can consider the iron commando mission in something like 5 turns? Possibly Kroth just research IW before t50, and it's moot (or is it?). It would involve a double axe from the cap at size 4 or 5, and a galley whip for 2 in Hastur. Can it work if we go in with a single galley (and send reinforcements asap)?

I am very leery of logging in too much and doing micro since I got totally sucked into PB58 back in the day. But I will try to log in a bit more now that I'm on holidays, yeah.

Even if we don't do that iron commando mission (and maybe T50 is too late, I'm not sure), I like the idea of tearing up nets, I think. That would work with a single galley to start with, and with early MC we could consider a second run if we want to be total assholes. The problem that occurs to me with the iron commandos is that it's not hard for Kroth to also just build shock axes. Giving any of our opponents an early GG would also be pretty disastrous, since that's our main advantage.

Edit: I forgot their iron is on a forested hill. Hmm.... I would strongly be considering it.

Edit Edit: Early masonry seems decent. Especially if Thoth plan goes through. Easy for him to just come smash us directly in punishment.

[Tarkeel]

I am very leery of logging in too much and doing micro since I got totally sucked into PB58 back in the day. But I will try to log in a bit more now that I'm on holidays, yeah.

I am eternally grateful BTW.

[Miguelito]

Commodore founded this, can't have them all. However our yellow dot is somewhat precarious considering Comm surely has the Cha Totem Pole incoming. Need to found that city with some culture source, maybe even a monument, ugh.

I am very leery of logging in too much and doing micro since I got totally sucked into PB58 back in the day. But I will try to log in a bit more now that I'm on holidays, yeah.

...

Edit: I forgot their iron is on a forested hill. Hmm.... I would strongly be considering it.

Edit Edit: Early masonry seems decent. Especially if Thoth plan goes through. Easy for him to just come smash us directly in punishment.

Of course, just whatever makes you have fun and feel comfortable.
I'm still not sold on the wall in Hastur. It will have 40% culture defense in like 10 turns, and I'm unconvinced the 10% extra are worth the tech + 50 hammers.

Going to start the galley in Hastur, need to work out yet how we man it though.

[Amicalola]

Stone walls could also be helpful in the northern two cities, if Comm realises we are distracted and tries to make a push. Fair point about Hastur though.

[Miguelito]

still a walls costs as much as an axe and a half... Brute is supposed to build Oracle and also have quick third ring borders, but yellow dot could get a wall - but I don't really know yet when we will get the settler even. We also kinda need a second worker.
I am a bit worried though that Commodore is the one that had Sailing before us, and will attack Brute that way.
Maybe the proper answer to dogs is archers? I believe we can move the free one from t50 on, that would be quite nice for Brute.

[Miguelito]

reload request:


hit E while the axe was selected. It's not actually fatal because of the spear, but still a bit of a problem because everything's tense here.

[Miguelito]

did the reload, but forgot to change Brute from axe to workboat. Blimey, 4h that could have had better use. Or maybe Comm makes us whip the axe soon anyways, who knows.

[Miguelito]

Fun but exhausting weekend kept me from reporting.
Small win: we axed Thoth's annoying chariot and got the shock axe to 5xp
Mildly alarming: both Thoth and Comm have granaries in their capitals
Change of plans required? Thoth has chopped the iron hill. He doesn't have IW yet, but it feels like it's any minute now. Also without the first the chances of a simple axe spear combo achieving anything seem vanishingly low. Get a worker in Hastur instead of the galley? And a granary in the cap instead of the double unit whip?