American Politics Discussion Thread

[Mjmd]

You think there is something wrong with people who would go shoot a group of people, but you think its fine to shoot someone who you have no clue who they are or what they might do in the future? Over a little bit of money? Hell they could contribute to society in the most important way and be a postal worker! The USPS hires people with felony convictions (typically non violent and non dangerous driving related).

If its fine to shoot up people over break in theft, should people be going and shooting up managerial offices? Wage theft dwarfs other types of theft in the US. While breaks ins are usually spontaneous (opportunistic) and one time events, wage theft is usually planned and a long term endeavor. While I'm fully for better laws around wage theft, I don't think vigilante justice is the way to go.

I will point out this whole argument is basically a red herring argument for gun control, because again the chances of a gun actually stopping a break in isn't high. It happens, but there is a lot of side harm that comes from not requiring something as simple as a gun safe for this rare scenario.

[superdeath]

You think there is something wrong with people who would go shoot a group of people, but you think its fine to shoot someone who you have no clue who they are or what they might do in the future? Over a little bit of money? Hell they could contribute to society in the most important way and be a postal worker! The USPS hires people with felony convictions (typically non violent and non dangerous driving related).

If its fine to shoot up people over break in theft, should people be going and shooting up managerial offices? Wage theft dwarfs other types of theft in the US. While breaks ins are usually spontaneous (opportunistic) and one time events, wage theft is usually planned and a long term endeavor. While I'm fully for better laws around wage theft, I don't think vigilante justice is the way to go.

I will point out this whole argument is basically a red herring argument for gun control, because again the chances of a gun actually stopping a break in isn't high. It happens, but there is a lot of side harm that comes from not requiring something as simple as a gun safe for this rare scenario.

Anyone "could" be the next Einstein. Yes, over a "little bit of money" its mine, i worked hard for it, just because they are supposedly struggling so much that they decided their best course of action is to steal from someone else, doesnt give them any protection from being on the receiving end of my firearm. It could be them stealing a 5$ baseball hat, or a 2000$ computer, the monetary amount doesnt matter if its mine to begin with. Will i just go blasting as soon as i see someone? Probably not. A hard "HEY, freeze!" or something similar, and providing they dont make a sudden move that looks like they are about to harm me, they probably wont be harmed. They will be arrested though.

Those caught and convicted in Wage Theft crimes imo, should be publicly hung. Im not a fan of vigilante justice, but my home is my domain. If i was trained in martial arts, or something similar maybe i wouldnt own a gun. I probably still would as i enjoy using it for recreational things, but who knows.

In general, should your gun be kept in a safe? Yep. Is it going to be at all useful that way if someone breaks in? Probably not. most safes and "oh, keep your ammo seperate and in a different room" kinda ideas really crap all over the HEY SOMEONE BROKE IN, I NEED TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND MYSELF AND MY FAMILY kinda thing.

[Mjmd]

Have you ever wronged anyone off SD? I know its a bible quote, but its not bad "let he without sin cast the first stone". I'm not talking just Einstein. I'm talking having a family. Getting a job as a postal worker. Ect. You don't need to become Einstein to be positive human capital.

Hung is probably still a bit much. But at least equal to physical theft would be nice.

Again, why the whole "defend your hope idea" is pushed so much. Again, even though it doesn't happen very much. We can't dare start down the road of moderate gun control.

[superdeath]

Have you ever wronged anyone off SD? I know its a bible quote, but its not bad "let he without sin cast the first stone". I'm not talking just Einstein. I'm talking having a family. Getting a job as a postal worker. Ect. You don't need to become Einstein to be positive human capital.

Hung is probably still a bit much. But at least equal to physical theft would be nice.

Again, why the whole "defend your hope idea" is pushed so much. Again, even though it doesn't happen very much. We can't dare start down the road of moderate gun control.

Im sure i have, but i havent stolen anything since i was a little kid (like 7 years old?) If someone breaks in, it doesnt matter if they have, or are planning on having a family. They could be Einstein, they could be a begger, if they come for my stuff, they will meet the consequences. They werent going to be high on the list of "positive" human capital if they are breaking and entering. This is parking in a handicap spot, not pushing a shopping cart back, running a red light, this is Breaking and Entering. That isnt a super petty crime.

Probably is a bit much. Ill admit that. Would rather they be tortured in someway than just get a nice easy "life" or years in prison. Or having to pay a small (relative to them) fine for having screwed people over.

We do need more gun control. But, a societal change and a rework of the mental health/healthcare situation is in order first.

[Mjmd]

Its stuff. Humans > stuff. Remember when you were saying you wouldn't give a gun to someone who would go shoot up people randomly. I consider this the same.

Ok one point of agreement. It needs to be more lol.

Straight from the propaganda. WHY NOT BOTH!!!

[superdeath]

Its stuff. Humans > stuff. Remember when you were saying you wouldn't give a gun to someone who would go shoot up people randomly. I consider this the same.

Ok one point of agreement. It needs to be more lol.

Straight from the propaganda. WHY NOT BOTH!!!

Sigh. When its a decision between saving stuff, or saving human lives? Yep.

When you are talking between letting someone take my stuff and just leave? No. There are consequences to their actions. Its MY stuff, no one will be shot randomly. Its for a good reason. In an absolute perfect utopia world, you would be 100% right this whole time. No argument there. But im not going to be walked all over because i cant defend myself and my property from those that wish to take it.

Edit: "why not both" Because no country or at least the USA can/will implement multiple sweeping changes at once. Everything is gradual. Would it be NICE to do both at the same time? YEP. But realistically, what would do the most good is the healthcare/mental services to be reformed.

Scenario time: Someone breaks into your home. You are home.

Scenario A: You have no weapon (bat/knife ect, since i assume you dont own a firearm) and they do or dont. What do you do?

Scenario B: You have a weapon of your choice and they do or dont.

What do you do in these scenarios? Let them just go thru your house like they have a grocery list? Or something else? Would you just huddle in a corner and not confront them and dial 911 hoping they are just there to take and leave? (The average time it takes for 911 to come in the US is between 5 to 6 minutes in a city and 14 minutes in rural areas) Im curious.

[Mjmd]

If they aren't armed they probably run upon realizing someone is home. If they are are armed and brave enough to stay, I give them whatever. My life and my families lives aren't worth my stuff. If they have a gun and you have a gun, you could lose your life for you wanting to keep STUFF. Realize this. Its not just about their lives (which I will argue is worth more than STUFF), but its also about yours. In a non single person residence a gun not in a gun safe could harm others who aren't thieves (again a rare occurrence).

I don't want sweeping changes. I want common sense changes the majority of Americans agree on but that are held up by gun lobbies.         

I again want to point out this whole argument is largely a red herring.

[Boro]

this fruitless back and forth you have been having reminded me of this article:

https://en.granma.cu/mundo/2023-01-05/cu...ms-in-2022

Remember: nothing will change because the kingmakers of usan politics are the rulers of arms, pharma, energy, and tech companies (and others that don't come to mind right now), none of whom are democratically elected or held accountable.

[Jowy]

If someone breaks in, it doesnt matter if they have, or are planning on having a family. They could be Einstein, they could be a begger, if they come for my stuff, they will meet the consequences. They werent going to be high on the list of "positive" human capital if they are breaking and entering. This is parking in a handicap spot, not pushing a shopping cart back, running a red light, this is Breaking and Entering. That isnt a super petty crime.

Probably is a bit much. Ill admit that. Would rather they be tortured in someway than just get a nice easy "life" or years in prison. Or having to pay a small (relative to them) fine for having screwed people over.

Deciding whether people deserve to die or live based on whether they contribute to society or not, is not a road you want to take. Torture is senseless violence with no benefits whatsoever, even for interrogation it has been proven useless. US prison conditions are cruel, slavery is legal, and it does not rehabilitate the prisoners to enter back into society, it does the opposite. Fines for people who already don't have anything only makes their situation worse. You need to enforce the laws, but in the current system there are no good options. Instead of focusing on how to punish them, what should be focused on is how to get these people out of their current circumstances. Things like making prison be about rehabilitation, and enacting social programs that do enough to not let people fall into poverty. As for yourself, defending yourself is never wrong. Killing people who you think deserve it for not contributing to society, or killing people to defend your luxury items, is evil.

[Jowy]

There is a video out now of policemen brutally beating Tyre Nichols to death in a traffic stop. Watch it and think if you truly want to be in agreement with those men.