American Politics Discussion Thread

[greenline]

I mean you seem to be fine voting for Trump and you stated you were fine with the death of America.......

I said I made my peace with it. I think it will be a very sad and tragic thing, with many imprisoned and impoverished. I find no glee in imagining the future to be one where the US is finally overtaken by wannabe Maoists who can finally make the world into the golden trio of totalitarian shitholes of Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia. Stop twisting my words, sophist.

[Mjmd]

Twisting was not intended. But it is hard to construe knowing Donald Trump tried to overthrow an election but not voting Democrat as being anything other than "fine with it". I get you hate and fear Democrats. There are reasons to not like them, although many of yours are untrue. But consider this. There is a conservative supreme court and the last time the Democrats tried passing major progressive legislation in the Affordable care act they lost the house, senate, and presidency. Whatever your fears of Democrats are, vote for them to save democracy. You don't have to be fine with democracy dying. Democracies require two healthy parties. I WANT a healthy republican party. It is required for our survival. It is not a healthy party right now and the easiest way to fix that is to vote against them until they return to a more normal political mentality (IE not be fine with overturning elections at a minimum).

[Boro]

I love how some americans have adopted the word "shitholes" for countries, although unlike in the past I wont be construing it as proof of hypocrisy (people pretended to be offended when trump introduced it for public use after all), there are so many other examples it's simply not worth the effort. Hypocrisy is the only constant between the two supposedly different parties you have.

Mjmd, you mentioned campaign financing. How on earth is any elected official, whose campaign was financed at least partly with those methods, and in great part by a handful of oligarchic forces, supposed to bite the hand that fed it by voting to end the practice, and then the upper house to pass it, and then the president to sign it? When all had their backroom deals in the process of the pre-election shitshow that some of your(plural) paid puppets tried to import to my hungary?

Just look at Lloyd "Mr Raytheon" Austin (a.k.a. the kabul bomber), and that's just one example of the "democratic" revolving door that just fills those seats with literal corporate stakeholders.

I mean, from the outside its hard to call something a democracy where the "1%" super minority (although it's in practice an even smaller fraction of a couple dozen, or maybe a few hundred people) not only commands the vast majority of the economy, but converts that control into political power? The term "plutocracy" is far more accurate.

After all, what history here in my homeland has taught us is that economic power inevitably becomes political power. Whether you call it corruption (in other countries), or lobbying (at home, to make it more presentable), doesn't matter. Economic power lets a few people control much of the so-called "free" media too, and it's hard to deny the power media has on shaping people's perceptions.

The fact that all writers', editors', etc', jobs, rely on the goodwill of the bosses, and the bosses' position on the goodwill of the handful of all-powerful stakeholders, (again, standard practice, since the pieces of media are private property of their owners, they effectively do what they want) alone should be enough to ring all the alarm bells, and it didn't! And it doesn't reflect good on you all...

But this is the democracy you all want.

[Mjmd]

Again, my hope is historically based. Our democracy and others have overcome MUCH greater obstacles. Its not like in the early 1900s there wasn't lobbying and corruption. Yet there were MAJOR changes done. It took work and blood. It took multiple overwhelming electoral victories. Democracies have that as a strength. In the great depression instead of constant coups and civil wars like many countries suffer in such circumstances a party went "heh the government will do stuff". Sure not all the stuff was successful, but it was SOMETHING. Post WWII you can argue we had two parties that both had progressive policies. They weren't the same ones, but they had to in order to win votes. Usually in Democracies you have to offer change to win elections. Sometimes fear works too, but only for so long. My hope is that we come out of the current time with just an overwhelming push towards accountability. Accountability is one of the two pillars of democracy. It doesn't always work the way we want. It doesn't always work fast. It takes work, but it can work. This is something other countries don't have. Look at a democracy index and corruption index sometime. Its pretty clear to see that strong democracies have good accountability. The US is NOT a strong democracy right now, but we can make it one.

[Charr Babies]

Accountability is one of the two pillars of democracy. It doesn't always work the way we want. It doesn't always work fast. It takes work,
but it can work.

It would seem the house of card is crumbling. If we punish corruption as other nations do, there be no politicians left in us.

This is something other countries don't have. Look at a democracy index and corruption index sometime.

You don't know that. All you have is western propaganda that vilifies any countries that is not the current buddy to the US hegemony. Our propaganda machine is the best in the world that I would say it beats North Korea hands down. It's working great, we are getting our money's worth for sure - plenty of example in this thread.

Its pretty clear to see that strong democracies have good accountability.

Wikileaks: Military indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff. Instead Julian Assange is being jailed

This worse liar in history, even I felt sorry for... NSA's Clapper Calls His Lies "Erroneous"
Btw, a golden body language lesson on how not to lie.

He is so proud. Perfect reflection on our state of affairs.



Between 280K to 315K have died from direct war related violence caused by the U.S., not to mention a nation left in human suffering shambles. How are we accountable to the Iraqis!?


How were these people involved, just to name a few, punished. We can shove our accountability up our asses 
for all Iraqis and Natives care.

How do you account for the ~million of deaths in the Ukraine proxy war? 

sophist

That's the word I was looking for!

[greenline]

The current Trump platform is pushing hard for accountability. The goal is to eliminate or reduce the impact of the bureaucracy and civil service, who have been completely unaccountable to the public for the past ninety years. It is a difficult goal that may never be realized, in part because many openly admit that replacement of the civil service would equal a coup (ie the civil service has become the actual government at this stage!)

[Ginger*]

The current Trump platform is pushing hard for accountability

[Mjmd]

I think we've argued before Charr and you posted EXACTLY the same thing. As I pointed out then, Democracies aren't perfect. Accountability isn't always what we want it to be or should be. But do you know where accountability is in an autocracy? Ya its mainly the autocrat and sometimes his cronies. Its somewhat telling that without me posting any specific corruption indexes you just called ALL of them fake. You know what they will show. You haven't read a single bit of there methodology or data, but yet FAKE! Question that mind mentality.

If you believe Trump was for accountability I have a bridge to sell you. We had a debate some time ago in this thread if he was possible the most corrupt president we've ever had.

[Mjmd]

I just went to a WWI re-enactment and was reminded of the power of democracy. Womens suffrage...... We got a bunch of men to vote to give women the right to vote. I don't think we in modern times understand how big this was. While I don't particularly recommend studding women s plight through time for your own sanity, it does say something that slowly their lot has improved under democracies. And because a lot of international aid has been tied to human rights its not just in liberal democracies.

[Boro]

This is something other countries don't have. Look at a democracy index and corruption index sometime.

You don't know that. All you have is western propaganda that vilifies any countries that is not the current buddy to the US hegemony. Our propaganda machine is the best in the world that I would say it beats North Korea hands down. It's working great, we are getting our money's worth for sure - plenty of example in this thread.

Best part is that many indices are made by "international" institutions created for the interests of the united states (or anglo-saxons in general).

Its pretty clear to see that strong democracies have good accountability.

Wikileaks: Military indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff. Instead Julian Assange is being jailed

Or the Abu Ghraib torturers getting away with a slap on the wrist, or mrs "we came we saw he died" unleashing both slave trade and the contents of libyan armories that both directly led to the rise of both Boko Haram and the Islamic State. Or the establishment media constantly calling al-kaida offshoots in syria "moderate rebels", or the kunduz hospital bombers getting away without any loss of reputation, Mr Raytheon and co. drone striking their own aid worker without anyone getting as much as a slap on the wrist except for a meek voice on the civil liberties union tossing out some complaints that barely anyone heard about.

I know I sometimes wake up and get slightly pissed at america, but these guys (and the people who effectively support them) really make it hard not to. But then again, its a fun challenge, so maybe tomorrow!

He is so proud. Perfect reflection on our state of affairs.


Between 280K to 315K have died from direct war related violence caused by the U.S., not to mention a nation left in human suffering shambles. How are we accountable to the Iraqis!?


How were these people involved, just to name a few, punished. We can shove our accountability up our asses 
for all Iraqis and Natives care.

How do you account for the ~million of deaths in the Ukraine proxy war? 

That is what the rest of the world is for, and the correct strategy is being employed: multipolarization and dedollarization.

Additionally, self-sufficiency in key technologies or having a larger scientific pool (chipmaking, number of chinese scientists) reduces the US' ability to stay on top of the value added pyramid, and can no longer utilize quasi-monopoly to set prices. With the weight of both high-tech products decreasing, trade imbalances even further, eventually leading to either collapse or learning some humility. The latter will require quite some housekeeping to be done, to prune the parasitic outgrowths of the US "economy", like the for-profit healthcare owners who inflate prices, rent-barons, and so on.

I mean, FIRE economy won't make toilet papers to stock the empty store shelves with.

That reminds me of the black friday store brawls. I find it oddly fitting. Truly, a pinnacle of civilization we're best giving a wide berth.