American Politics Discussion Thread

[Brian Shanahan]

As I predicted, the state of Colorado has set the stage for the final transition of the US into an official banana republic (first initiated by Wilson and FDR) by casting away any votes with Trump on the ballot. I was a little surprised that it would be there and not a place like California first, but perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised to see it happen first in a swing state. The conservatives may try and mount challenges to that in court, but I'm not holding my breath. I would hope all the single middle aged women can finally stop crowing about this being necessary to save 'our democracy' - clearly, it has been saved enough now that the outcome will never be in jeopardy again.

Pity about you that your country hasn't, yet, descended into a neo-nazi dictatorship. By any measure, even by the extremely and insane definition the US uses, T****y is a traitor to his country and should be swinging gently in the breeze outside GQP HQ pour encourager les autres.

[Brian Shanahan]

The 14th Amendment does not state violent, lethal or similar (although some would argue Jan 6th fulfills that anyways). There were confederates barred under it and many other requested amnesty to remove their section 3 disqualification and never even tried running. It seems absurdly illogical that someone who tried to overturn a democratic election in our country should be allowed to run. The civil war is in essence part of the country saying "we don't agree to live under the results of an election". Just as a reminder for why transfer of power is a key pillar of democracy and the dangerous road Trump has started this country down.

It was also used to bar at least one pacifist from holding office, because he personally opposed entry into WW1.

[greenline]

The definition for being a nazi these days includes such benign activities as thinking that a police force serves a necessary function in enforcing laws. So forgive me for not wanting to hang the 70 million "nazis" that make up a substantial portion of this country.

[Dreylin]

The definition for being a nazi these days includes such benign activities as thinking that a police force serves a necessary function in enforcing laws. So forgive me for not wanting to hang the 70 million "nazis" that make up a substantial portion of this country.

Or if you're on the other side of the debate, "patriot" can mean someone who actively tries to overthrow democracy. Potayto potahto.

[greenline]

What sort of gotcha is that supposed to be? A patriot is motivated by a love of their country and its people and the culture, not by unquestioning allegiance to its current form of government. The word for that sort of person is a bureaucrat.

[Mjmd]

I would argue that the system of US government, IE Democracy, is the heart and soul of the country. Therefore yes a patriot WOULD NOT support the overthrow of said Democracy. I would call people who are knowingly rooting for that traitors. People who are on that same political spectrum but afraid to speak up cowards. And then there are people who are ignorant (willful or otherwise). There are a few true patriot Republicans, but most of them have been kicked out sadly.

[darrelljs]

Traitors become patriots when they win (e.g George Washington) and patriots become traitors when they lose (e.g. Benedict Arnold).

Darrell

[Dreylin]

What sort of gotcha is that supposed to be? A patriot is motivated by a love of their country and its people and the culture, not by unquestioning allegiance to its current form of government. The word for that sort of person is a bureaucrat.

Not so much intended as a gotcha as a commentary on your comment that language can lose its precision and even meaning across a partisan divide.

Perhaps I was a bit throwaway and patriot was not the best example; how about Elon’s deeply ironic choice of Grok for the name of his AI tool? The original meaning of the word was along the lines of deep understanding and empathy, whereas a “spicy” “anti-woke” troll-bot is decidedly … not that.

[Amicalola]

Watching this election from the outsider's perspective is very odd. It's almost comedic in its dysfunction, until you remember that unfortunately every country is massively affected by the whims of the American voter base and legal system, and that the stakes are very high. It's hard not to get frustrated at the people the rest of us are forced to rely on - I wonder if that's responsible for the visibly increased anti-American sentiment here.

[greenline]

The bewildering and frustrating aspect of the typical anti-American sentiment is how many foreigners and Europeans especially seem to see themselves as more morally and intellectually superior Americans who demand that Americans should imitate them, rather than a more justified desire to escape American influence as a foreign yoke to be escaped from.