SPOILER - Dazedroyalty's Thread

[dazedroyalty]

I'm thinking about finishing Sailing now, then Masonry and chopping out the GLH....

[dazedroyalty]

Well, another turn has been played. I feel like I keep playing the turns quickly because of time constraints and haven't had the chance to sit down and really think about my next move or give more planning to a potential settler trade with Serdoa.

I'm hoping that I am the first to start exploring off shore but need to assume that everyone else is doing it too:



You can see that the island off my coast seems to be uniquely "mine" with a small mountain island in between allowing me to travel to serdoa's island if need be.

I've also started a settler right away. I hope to settler the location I agreed with Scooter (my settler) and then either to my west on the starting continent or onto the island (settler from Serdoa).

Scooter and I had a chat yesterday and we're pretty sure this is a tilted axis world. In fact, the western map edge seems to be two tiles west of the starting continent (sorry, no pic). That explains the snow forests if we're in the "south." Of course, the map has been heavily edited so the snow forests could be meaningless, but I think it makes sense.

[dazedroyalty]

Serdoa just emailed me and we realized neither of us has writing... looks like he'll have to found the city and then gift it to me.

Dazed,

I thought about our deal and realized something. I cannot enter your borders without declaring war. I cannot trade units to you if we are at war. So I will not be able to trade you the settler. The only possibility instead I see is to build the city for you and gift it. Or will you get Writing soon anyway? Then forget that I ever said something.

Kind regards,
Serdoa

[dazedroyalty]

TGL plans? NOPE! Scooter is going to try to build the the Great Lighthouse. He just finished Sailing but is still possibly interested in a trade for a galley? Yeah... that means he's building the Lighthouse himself. He's the only industrious and it's an an awesome wonder, especially how this map looks to be shaping up.

me: you have any interest in a trade for worker(s)?
scooter: hmmm
trying to think of what i'd want
me: i will have access to galleys if you want to save yourself the time to research them
scooter: i actually just researched sailing haha
well i'll tell you what, lets keep the idea in mind but not ink something quite yet until writing comes in
since we cant make a trade until then
well.. i mean revisit it when writing is closer
i'll keep it in mind for sure
me: sure sure. I'm just feeling out possibilities
scooter: galley - worker trade might work

[dazedroyalty]

First of all, here's the proof of the tilted axis theory:



I didn't realize that zooming out would show the ice caps.

Here's life in the south:



And in the north:

[dazedroyalty]

As a tilted Axis, SleepingMoogle just proved the world round! Sigh... that'll be really nice for him.

[dazedroyalty]

Just because of time constraints, I've not been posting some of the non-essential diplomacy. I'm trying to keep conversations going at all times so that there is a steady stream of goodwill. I think it's most successful with Scooter and we've even started our own Always War Duel PBEM game.

So, I sent this to Scooter. Hopefully it's a teaser for all the lurkers too because I've got an idea:

I have an idea to run by you but before I even get that far, I would like ask for an agreement that what we discuss would never be shared with others at any point during the game. Since it is still early, I don't think either of us would want future relations to be damaged simply because we discuss a possible idea early on. Hopefully such an agreement would allow us to entertain the idea, discuss nuances without committing. If you're in agreement, let me know.

Dazed

[dazedroyalty]

To Scooter:

Scooter,

Here's what I am thinking. On a map like this one that is so cramped, conflict is inevitable even with the expanding to the east. Advantages will be gained that will snowball down the road and close proximity will dictate war. My conflict with Serdoa is just a taste of what is to come. The question is not if conflict occurs, but when and between who.

Tactically/strategically, it is much better to be able to pick the who and when than to have it thrust upon us. My thought process centers around how we can plan ahead for the who and, to some degree, the when.

Because there are five players in line with one another, an alliance of 2-on-1 is only moderately helpful. For example, the map is this (with the letters representing civs):

A
-
B
-
C
-
D
-
E

If A and C team up against B, that leaves both A and C vulnerable to D and/or E attacking their flank and-worst case scenario--banding together to ally with B. In order to safely go to war, the ideal situation is to have one border secured, then ally with your neighbor's neighbor to create a sandwich scenario.

If A and C are teaming up against B, they will want D or E to be on their side too. If they are able to secure the alliance of three, then it will strongly deter the final team from taking advantage of an insecure flank.

How do you make a three team alliance work? Obviously, there would be many details to work out, but if A-C-E team together to wipe out B and D, the fundamental benefit is that there is room for all three to expand into their opponents former land (and with good planning in a fairly equitable way).

The advantage in war will go to the one who has planned ahead to secure allies. So I think it can be clearly stated that a three team agreement is the ideal one.

That still leaves the question of timing. This plan would be enacted down the road at a later date as it is, in my opinion, too early to attempt any type of successful war campaign that would not either completely fail or completely destroy our growth curve.

What is essential now is that we build the structure so that when the time is right, we can choose ourselves when war will come.

My modest proposal is that we discuss the potential benefit of having an alliance between our great nation and TwinkleToes in order to ensure the strength of numbers on our side and, hopefully, the ability to determine when and where war will happen. I have good reasons which I can explain later why I think this is the ideal combination of teams.

Of course, if you believe war is permanently avoidable, this is a non-starter. That is not, however, my opinion. In a five team game, being in the alliance of three is essential.

Long term, we would not be committing to be buddy buddy forever. This would be an alliance of advantage for everyone and we all know we want to win eventually.

Also, the specific term, plans and details would need to be ironed out. This is not meant to be the final proposal but the conversation starter.

What are your thoughts?

Dazed

[Sareln]

... I'm just going to do a little dance here

Anything interesting happening in-game?

[dazedroyalty]

So sorry for keeping you all waiting so long. There is a lot to report and update you on. I've managed to play my turns quickly but haven't gotten time to even sit down and strategize my play. So, first let me give you the only picture I currently have:



A couple of notes: Serdoa gave me the city he owed me. He actually built it two turns ago but, for some reason, didn't gift it the first turn. I don't know if that was really an oversight or some subtle devious plan to delay me one more turn.

You can also see that I have a Settler/Axe one tile away from the location I agreed to settle with scooter. That will be founded the turn after next. I have to decide if I want to shoot for my fourth city on an island or try to claim some more space here on the starting continent. I'd really like the spot west of Serdoa's second city.

Another frustration was that my warrior scouting towards TT (who I STILL haven't met) was killed by a barb warrior that SM saw but didn't let me know about. I have been very unlucky on 50-50 battles. I still cant' believe Serdoa attacked my axe across a river at low odds. SleepingMoogle sent this after the fact:

Greetings Dazedroyalty,

It is with heavy heart that we received word of a cowardly sneak attack from a barbarian war party on one of your scouts. Please send Malazan condolences to the family of the brave warrior, and let them know that his death has been avenged.

-Emperor SleepingMoogle I

He might have simply not thought about it but he also might have hoped it would attack me and protect him. He got to kill it off (which gains him more XP than defending too). My response to him:

SleepingMoogle,

Thank you for your condolences. It was indeed with a heavy heart that I saw that barbarian attack take place. If the Malazan empire notices any other barbarian activity, Narnia would greatly appreciate any forewarning you could offer.

How goes the rest of matters in Malazan. As each empire on this earth expands, it will begin to bring more and more potential conflict to our world. How are your relations with your neighbors? Narnia's main interaction with our neighbors has been, as you know, with Serdoa. We achieved peace and he has already followed through on his promise to gift Narnia with a new city, proudly named Lamp-post.

Have you gotten to make use of your circumnavigation bonus yet? I have a feeling that there is much out there to be explored.

Dazed

Scooter sent me two messages in follow up to my proposal:

Dazed,

I've been giving your proposal a lot of thought, and I'm sort of torn as to how to approach it. Half of me likes the idea, and half of me doesn't like the idea of turning the game into "alliance wars"... Honestly, I was hoping with 5 players that it wouldn't turn into a 3v2. I actually wanted to avoid that, and was planning on trying to block just that from happening... So to join up as part of the 3 feels sort of hypocritical in my mind.

That said, I don't want to nuke the idea because it IS attractive to me... And really, it probably is the optimal play for me - freeze out and eliminate two strong rivals, and then move to the next stage of the game.

So maybe you can see where my dilemma is, or maybe it sounds stupid to you for all I know. But I will say that in my head I'm not leaning heavily towards going with your plan or rejecting it... I'm stuck pretty square in the middle... I just have to figure out what I want to do. Any thoughts?

scooter

Dazed,

Just a clarifying question as I've thought about all of this... Have you talked to Twinkletoes about this at all? What I'm asking is this - is this just something you've brought up to me or have you explored it further with Twinkletoes? And if you have, what was his reaction to the idea?

scooter

To which I have written back:

Scooter,

Sorry I've been slow getting back to you. I work in higher education (staff not professor) and orientation started last week. It's fun to have our students back but also a little busy!

I understand your negative reaction to forming alliances, especially at this early stage. To be honest, I'm not thrilled about it either but I also don't want to get stuck on the short end of potential future alliances.

I have my own reservations: namely, I'm not a fan of formal NAPs that create extremely binding situations that may turn out to be unhelpful at best. An alliance without a formal NAP though can't really be called an alliance. Perhaps that is for the best. If three teams are not formally allied but simply have strong working relationships and recognize mutual benefits that is even better in some ways and give a reasonable assurance against back stabbing (to the degree that is possible).

I have not actually been able to talk to TwinkleToes yet at all unfortunately. My northern scout was just killed by a lion (that I could easily have been warned about but another player did not chose to do...) I wanted to start the conversation with you first because I think that we have had good relations and would benefit a lot from an arrangement.

My opinion is this: I'm very open to different means of moving forward in long term diplomatic relations. That said, I am also strongly convinced it is better to mold the shape of the future rather than simply react to it.

Dazed

(Scooter and I are also playing a duel AW PBEM with each other so we have had more non-game related communication than I have had with any of the other players.

The most interesting thing I have heard today is this little nugget from Serdoa:

Dazed,

Everythings fine here, though I agree I am not happy about SleepingMoogles latest achievement. Sure, it is nice for him, but he has already a good position and this will only further strenghten it. Not much we can do about that right now. And unfortunately I believe he has some kind of alliance with TT. I guess I will know soon.

On another note, I am heading for Writing right now. Open borders will make trades possible and I think that will come in handy. Have you already decided where to head next?

Kind regards,
Serdoa

I've followed up with him to try to find out how he knows about their alliance.