American Politics Discussion Thread

[Charr Babies]

I'm sorry the "not quite" clearly absolves you from posting said click bait and taking most of its premises at face value. My apologies.

It clearly does. It is a Logical Fallacy to assume just because a video used a clickbait title screen, has no meat, aka, judging a book by its cover. Using click bait titles is a common practice through out western media big and small, from networks to independent producers.

Again, I have made a statement using the vid as a jumping off point, and, if something in that vid stand out to you as distorted; debunk away.

[Mjmd]

I mean fair enough. Just because a known shill uses clickbait it doesn't mean he COULDN'T have points. Its just that no one actually looking for facts and good should probably click on it. And if you do you should with a VERY critical eye. I will do this 1 video (I don't want to get bogged down with video review) on the condition that A) you never post a video here with "GAME OVER" or "CHECKMATE" here again. B) that you at least consider never clicking on these yourselves and consider not watching any youtuber who does this. You'll be better off for it.

Quick note he doesn't link sources - another pretty good red flag.

- So lets start off - he states 2024 will be turning point due to OMG ONLY 80% of oil trade still being done in USD....... He kind of alludes to this (by throwing out unsupported that sanctions have done NOTHING which I've argued before but if you believe either nothing or very effective again rethink) but ya two of the biggest oil produces Iran and Russia are sanctioned. This was almost certainly the same situation as last year, so what is the difference between 2023 and 2024? He never goes into. And this is going to be a consistent theme, but 20% of oil trade being in different currencies is hardly great proof that the US dollar is DOOMED.
-He then goes into China using its own currency more and dumping US debt. I wonder if China and US have had an decoupling tensions recently? A question that might be asked is heh during the cold war did the USD stop being the reserve currency? Again, weakening is hardly proof of "GAME OVER". Also, did US treasuries still sell? Just because China does something doesn't mean the rest of the world will naturally follow suit or that even in a cold war scenario that USD won't remain the world reserve currency.
-I always have to sigh when people think that BRICCS countries are somehow equivalent to western organizations. The two largest members India and China have tons of tension between themselves (see them fighting a stick battle in 2020). It remains to be seen how well they can work together (Modi after his reelection acknowledged Taiwan congratulations angering China as just the most recent sign of them not being near the same page). I also like that his title OF THE VIDEO that they have launched the new BRICCS currency is just false and he even states "they are going to". This btw is another great sign not to click on a video. IF THE TITLE OF THE VIDEO IS WRONG!!! There is still tons of work to be done before we even see what this looks like let alone how much it will be used. Is this a threat to the US dollar. Sure. But again, hardly "GAME OVER". Its far from "NOT QUITE".
-And now we get to an "expert" from their sponsor trying to get people to buy gold (hm wonder if this is a red flag). And this is where I stop taking detailed rebuttal because I have to get back to my actual job.

I did listen to the rest, but again one of the key things missing is any logic going from signs of weakening to "GAME OVER". Again, this doesn't mean some of the points aren't valid and the US shouldn't do things about them (again shockingly we get to react), but the premise that the dollar is doomed or that somehow another currency will become the reserved currency is never proven. Instead we are just making things sound really bad, without any kind of analysis how how big of a deal "x" point is. ITS ALL DOOOOOM. When I watch videos, I expect A) analysis on how big of a deal an issues really is and B) offsetting information. This video NEVER goes into heh what are somethings the dollar has going for it that might counter movement away. And this is also a huge red flag. Any video that doesn't even try to give both depth to issues being discussed but also anything on the other side stinks of propaganda.

[Charr Babies]

Just because a known shill uses clickbait it doesn't mean he COULDN'T have points.

Right, otherwise we will have to dismiss all western media.

You are still hung up on the Click Bait Game Over; basing all you argument that it is not game over right this moment. Weak. One thing you must have missed is the quote that "slowly, until it is not." Your entire argument falls flat because you fail to debunk the trends he presented. Yes, thing can change but that does not mean he's wrong because the chain is broken. He's opinion is very valid to me based on current events and if the trend continues. 

And just because you get over a hump before (history), does not mean you'll get over every hump

As I've said, all western media large and small, use click baits. Get over it (How do you not know that!?!?), or get off the grid.

[Mjmd]

Disparaging ALL western media again I see. Just on the face of it the most open and free flowing pool of information in history has faults, but also has the greatest access to information in history. You just have to be able avoid bad information and find good information. Part of avoiding bad information is avoiding videos and creators like this. So sure there is a lot of junk in it, but that doesn't mean ALL of it is junk.

You've never (and he certainly didn't) proven his trends will lead anywhere. No where in the video is the degree to which each of those things might contribute discussed. No where are mitigating factors mentioned. Ever heard of slippery slope fallacy or non sequitur? Sure it COULD suddenly shift, but 20% of oil trade being done in other currencies, gold being bought by central banks, and China not using / buying as much USD is not overwhelming evidence that it even has an above 50% chance of happening.

His opinions should be HIGHLY suspect to you. Again, you've admitted he is a shill using clickbait with no linked sources.

I've linked a few articles and videos here, and of those none of them have had titles that weren't even true yet, none of them have "GAME OVER" or "CHECKMATE" in them. You are trying to equate this video to the same as ALL other western media and its just not close to true. False equivalency.

[Charr Babies]

Disparaging ALL western media again I see. Just on the face of it the most open and free flowing pool of information in history has faults, but also has the greatest access to information in history. You just have to be able avoid bad information and find good information. Part of avoiding bad information is avoiding videos and creators like this. So sure there is a lot of junk in it, but that doesn't mean ALL of it is junk.

No Duh! Same goes with the us. Trump says it's all fake news, the other side says Trump is all click bait. Both sides claims the other is incompetent. That's coming from our highest office, and we come out to prove the other side is the shits at least every four years. No red flag there? We have a real circus going here. And you are hung up on a click bait title screen. 

You've never (and he certainly didn't) proven his trends will lead anywhere. No where in the video is the degree to which each of those things might contribute discussed. No where are mitigating factors mentioned. Ever heard of slippery slope fallacy or non sequitur? Sure it COULD suddenly shift, but 20% of oil trade being done in other currencies, gold being bought by central banks, and China not using / buying as much USD is not overwhelming evidence that it even has an above 50% chance of happening.

The video and real world events is plenty of prove if you would only be honest to yourself to see what is going on around the world, ditch your delusion of grandeur. The us doesn't have to falter to far to suffer, any bite in the strength of the us dollar hurts because we totally depends on our power to print money. Why our top officials keep going go to China to beg, even when China has shown they are less than welcome to visit. 

Again, you've admitted he is a shill using clickbait

I was only quoting you. It's really a moot point if you label him a shill. Both our potus to be are being called much worse than that. Do you believe anything they say!?

[Mjmd]

Your switching arguments from all media to a specific portion of media that you know has more falsehoods. Classic strawman. But even here your argument that all western media is false is well false. Just because all politicians lie a lot, doesn't mean they ALWAYS lie. It just means you should be highly suspect, analyze, and fact check. You know the things I'm asking you to do to your video. There is also another difference. We are forced to interact with politics because it impacts us. You aren't forced to click on obvious click bait in youtube. If you accidentally do or a youtuber you like starts producing shoddy quality videos, you can always stop watching them.

So part of our disagreement is the odds at the end of the day. You hear a couple of weaknesses without any clue on how important those points of argument even are and your world view is "that sounds plausible". I KNOW the world is super complicated and much harder to simplify down. There is a lot of momentum and systems set up with USD. If someone's first argument is 20% of the oil trade no longer uses USD, my thoughts go "they aren't using it because we aren't letting them" and "that still means 80% IS using". That argument doesn't raze the odds that much to me. To me the odds are much higher the EURO surpasses than some BRICCS cryptocurrency that hasn't even been "launched". 

See first statement about being highly suspect, analyzing, and fact checking.

[Charr Babies]

Your switching arguments from all media to a specific portion of media that you know has more falsehoods. Classic strawman. But even here your argument that all western media is false is well false. Just because all politicians lie a lot, doesn't mean they ALWAYS lie. It just means you should be highly suspect, analyze, and fact check. You know the things I'm asking you to do to your video. There is also another difference. We are forced to interact with politics because it impacts us. You aren't forced to click on obvious click bait in youtube. If you accidentally do or a youtuber you like starts producing shoddy quality videos, you can always stop watching them.

So part of our disagreement is the odds at the end of the day. You hear a couple of weaknesses without any clue on how important those points of argument even are and your world view is "that sounds plausible". I KNOW the world is super complicated and much harder to simplify down. There is a lot of momentum and systems set up with USD. If someone's first argument is 20% of the oil trade no longer uses USD, my thoughts go "they aren't using it because we aren't letting them" and "that still means 80% IS using". That argument doesn't raze the odds that much to me. To me the odds are much higher the EURO surpasses than some BRICCS cryptocurrency that hasn't even been "launched". 

See first statement about being highly suspect, analyzing, and fact checking.

Facts were presented to you and you argue that they didn't show the entire spread sheet, in a short youtube format. Rather than debunking the facts, you entire argument is that he didn't speak well about the current downward spiral we are in.

I hardly need any lesson on media consumption from someone who is wrapped in a bubble. LoL

I see a bunch of double standards that's typical from you. You have just push fore that ALL POLITICIAN LIE ALOT and accused me of setting up strawman for saying all western media lie. And then in one fell swoop excused them from lying.

[Mjmd]

I argued that A) they didn't show where their facts were FROM. Kind of a big deal. B) I argued they didn't really prove why those facts meant something WOULD happen.

I would argue we all have our bubbles as its literally impossible to be a subject matter expert on everything and there is a lot of news from tons of countries and sources that no one could possible consume it all. But its important to and I will repeat analyze and fact check. Again, from the first minute I analyzed. He said 20% of oil not being settled in USD is somehow game changing in 2024 but never mentions why it wasn't in 2023 and doesn't state why the other 80% doesn't matter. He never made an argument that this will expand; let alone go into why it would. These are obvious holes even I could see. Part of making sure our bubbles don't have too much bias is to not do things like click on youtube videos with inaccurate titles with things like "GAME OVER" in the background. If your bubble includes these kinds of things and you spend your time on them that is part of your bubble and not a good part. Again, part of my deal to even go over this 1 video is that you never post a video with "GAME OVER" or "CHECKMATE" here again. I don't care the subject matter, its not worth anyone's time.

I excused them from lying? I believe I said be suspicious, analyze, and fact check. That you should 100% be suspicious of anything they say. I'm rereading what I wrote and I'm not sure where you are getting I'm excusing them from lying. I do state we have to deal with them even though they do lie and yes participate in click bait like behavior.

[Charr Babies]

I argued that A) they didn't show where their facts were FROM. Kind of a big deal. B) I argued they didn't really prove why those facts meant something WOULD happen.

A/ They don't have to in a short form video. this is not a movie, FFS, otherwise the credit roll would run longer than the vid. As you kept saying " But its important to and I will repeat analyze and fact check" and yet you fail to debunk what he said. And you didn't INCLUDE ANY LINKS.

B/ For people who is not in the bubble, there are plenty of signs it is happening slowly. You probably know too as you have indicated, just don't want to admit it fully. 

More double standards "Just because all politicians lie a lot," you excuse them saying "doesn't mean they ALWAYS lie.", and put the onus on the people not to trust the government. Instead, you became complacent that's the way things in the west are, deal with it.

Of course no one can know everything, it's just sad to be stuck inside a well and still insists he sees the big picture refusing any bit of new information that happen to trickle in. 

Part of making sure our bubbles don't have too much bias is to not do things like click on youtube videos with inaccurate titles with things like "GAME OVER" in the background.

AND YET YOU CLICKED 

But sure, with your hypocrisy you will come up with all kinds of reasons why I should not diss you for clicking on the vid. It's ok for you but not me.

[Mjmd]

So let me give a GOOD example. Maybe that will help. Remember when there was that story of Chinese corruption and water in some of their nuke missiles. Lot of clickbait stories ect. Here is a great reasonable take on that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhI_tTEE2ZQ
Yes its a Perun video. He does great work. AND AND AND. SOURCES LISTED. About 30 of them including some from Chinese media. 

Now could I debunk that 20% of oil not being USD will NOT cause USD to be the international currency. I could probably find some measured study or article for USD most likely maintaining its status as the international currency. But that is a lot of work to find actually good articles with good logic and good support. And then you would just blast it as being pro western no matter what. Seems like a waste of my time. I've stated my logical objections to the video short form or no he doesn't make the case. He also lacks any listed support.

Now lets try a BAD example. I bet there exists a Charr Babies equivalent that would swear the below videos made valid points and were just too short form to fully flesh out their arguments and we shouldn't question them too closely. They would swear you just can't see the whole picture. They would swear that you are just too ignorant when you poke logical holes in the videos.



Now they MIGHT make valid points. But as I stated before I bet they would be out of proportion / context / be missing some logical links. I don't recommend clicking on ANY of these either. You can find plenty of CHINA GAME OVER / CHECKMATE stuff about their property market, demographics, corruption, and endless others out there. Don't fall for the click bait. DON'T. And yet tons of views and I guarantee you some very confident Charr Babies equivalents are among their viewers. I want you to really think about that. You 100% believe you are right and they 100% believe they are right. And you both are clicking on garbage and using that as proof for your world views.

I'm not excusing lies by saying they don't always lie. I'm saying its important to actually try to figure out things like how often and about what are they lying? Who's lies are bigger? They people shouldn't trust the government. I would think that is an area we can agree in general at least. I am not urging complacency. In fact I'm urging people to more critical.

I literally only clicked and listened when you challenged me to. I knew it was a waste of my time and yet I did it. I will note I did go back to doing my actual job once the rather obvious invest in gold through us and here is why! started. I also only did it on the condition that you never post another with obvious clickbait again. Probably still a waste of my time, but ah well. Maybe someone else will read this and next time they see obvious click bait they won't click on it.