American Politics Discussion Thread

[Charr Babies]

Extreme, me? I mean, one of the worse thing from the biden regime is making me look like I am on trump's side. You've all seen me calling them an orange orangutang and an senile warmonger.  Even the Democrats kick him out of the race. I am leaning toward trump even if there's a slim chance he's the lesser evil. We simply cannot continue down the path biden has taken us.

[Mjmd]

The path of a growing economy, low unemployment, and long term investing in America?

Like is voting for the fascist and most corrupt president in our history who also only surrounds himself with yes men really the lesser of two evils? I'm not saying the democrats have been perfect, but again, not the fascist would be the stronger argument even if we had triple digit inflation and doule digit unemployment.

[greenline]

Can you spot the "fiscally responsible" Clinton administration?

[Mjmd]

You can. Its the point where it slowly starts to curve back down. But then Bush. You can also spot Reagans policies pretty easily.

[greenline]

The Bush era tax cuts were enacted in 2001 and 2003, the years you are pointing to when you say that there was a noticeable impact from fiscal responsibility. The sunsetting of some tax brackets from those cuts is invisible on the graph for 2012.

[Mjmd]

I mean its not like Bush didn't enter us into a couple wars and deregulate banks leading to a recession that could have affected GDP or spending over a long period of time. Its always important not to be mono casual.

Like we can get into deficit by president in recent history. Republican deficits are in part due to tax cuts mainly targeted at the wealthy. Democrat deficits are usually trying to bring the country out of the downturn in the economy from prior admin and they also have to deal with reduced revenue from those Republican tax cuts.

[superdeath]

I mean Biden isn't running anymore, but by most metrics easy win and that is with starting from a much worse point than Trump. I know a few people here like to complain about the start of Bidens tenure, but he was left with a mess. Trump took over a growing economy, went against good economic theory, and they herald him a genius. Again, I've talked about this recently, but even if you complain about issues of the Biden admin, Republicans haven't shown a damn bit of initiative at actually fixing anything.

Biden isn't running anymore because he's beaten.

I don't care as much what the numbers say. The fact is, the majority of the population are finding it harder to make ends meet, while the rich gets richer. Homelessness has increased ~20% since trump.

Ukraine war 

Genocide in Gaza

EVEN IF the US was doing poorly, we know from history electing the fascist isn't generally the correct move.

Edit: but ya not the lesser of two evils, very much the greater by leaps and bounds as I've argued extensively.

So yeah, you still fail to convince anyone. Otherwise we wouldn't be here.

Who are you blaming the Ukraine war or Genocide in Gaza on now? Lol.

[superdeath]

The path of a growing economy, low unemployment, and long term investing in America?

Like is voting for the fascist and most corrupt president in our history who also only surrounds himself with yes men really the lesser of two evils? I'm not saying the democrats have been perfect, but again, not the fascist would be the stronger argument even if we had triple digit inflation and doule digit unemployment.

Now, Trump WAS corrupt. But not the most corrupt president in our history. Most likely to be okay with an overthrow of the government? Yep. But not most corrupt.

[Mjmd]

The path of a growing economy, low unemployment, and long term investing in America?

Like is voting for the fascist and most corrupt president in our history who also only surrounds himself with yes men really the lesser of two evils? I'm not saying the democrats have been perfect, but again, not the fascist would be the stronger argument even if we had triple digit inflation and doule digit unemployment.

Now, Trump WAS corrupt. But not the most corrupt president in our history. Most likely to be okay with an overthrow of the government? Yep. But not most corrupt.

You know I actually originally thought the same thing, but the more you look into it the more that you realize he really was. I have exactly 2 of my political write ups saved in notepad and this was one of them in response to trying to figure out if it was worse than teapot dome. I want to note the below does not include other officials under him as many past corrupt presidents also get the blame for corruption of those they appoint.

In spoiler, as its already been posted here once before:

So for this I'm going to ignore anything before he was president. Again, why Republicans chose someone with his business background with the lawsuits he had been involved as a "genius" and savior to "drain the swamp" I will never know. Its like saying the best person to sort the candy is your 4 year old.

It is also hard to know how much would have happened normally. So things like that he got 69 foreign trademarks during this time. How much easier / cheaper / how many would have been improved if he wasn't. We can't know.

So campaigning there are some cases like forcing secret service to pay $1.5M to use his plane. His famous $107M inauguration...... Sure no swampiness was had here.

So Trump started his presidency by saying he would have NO involvements with his properties. A fitting statement for somone campaigning on "draining the swamp". He didn't completely give up like Carter did with his peanut farm, but you know what I would have taken this.

So ya he visited his properties 547 times including 33 to the Trump hotel IN Washington....

He golfed 328 times at HIS properties. He never confirmed how much he actually played golf so we don't know those numbers. Now Obama also played a lot of golf, 333 times, but his was spread out over two terms vs 1 and mind you Fox news and Trump thought that was WAY too much. Not only was his spread out over two terms, but it obviously wasn't at golf courses he owned and some of it was at military courses. I do want to specifically note all these numbers are from ONE term and its good to note going forward.

Now listen. Presidents can return home. Its a stressful job. I wouldn't begrudge him some trips and some golf (Trump isn't even those most for 1 term). But all at his own properties.... Now obviously not only do the secret service join him (famously charged high amounts), but also other officials and diplomats. Zalenski famously stayed at a Trump hotel and made sure when he talked to Trump to mention it. 150 officials from 77 foreign governments.

He also conducted official business at his properties. Mar a lago hosted 8 heads of state for instance. I don't see how you can justify 1 head of state visit let alone 8.

346 executive branch officials made 993 visits to Trump properties. Most to the presidents DC hotel. But also some famous examples like Pence staying 2,000 miles away from where he needed to be so he could stay at a Trump property.

143 members of Congress made 361 visits to Trump properties. You may recognize some of these names. Sen. Lindsey Graham made the greatest number of visits, with 28, followed by Rep. Matt Gaetz, who went to one 22 times, and Sen. Rand Paul and Rep. Kevin McCarthy, who visited a Trump property 20 and eighteen times respectively.

80 state officials including 19 governors.

Obviously it wasn't just government (US or otherwise). $13 million was spent by special interest groups. Over 250 events at 14 Trump properties. And mind you Trump was AT some of these. Let that lovely swamp smell sink in. There are some direct examples of events hosted and then soon after policies being changed if you are curious.

Political committees including his own spent $7 million his properties (not government money, but including to show enriching himself).

His properties advertised events with note that he might stop by, and he did on several occasions.

Again, as a note he had said he would have NOTHING to do with his properties. In addition to the direct $$$ from above he continued to promote his own properties often at official events.

There is obviously the watergate equivalent Ukraine call. This maybe should go in "threat to democracy", but its not on same level as overturning so will include. As a reminder he didn't go through official channels for this and presidents shouldn't be involved in investigating political rivals (something no one has proven Biden has done even though you constantly accuse).

This is JUST Trump. I don't have to go "but x child did x". I don't have to go into officials he appointed many of whom were former lobyists (although I'm tempted on both, but this is already a book). There is MUCH more there. This is just what we KNOW. This was just what I could throw together quickly. I ran out of time as I'm going to bed. This is NOT comparable to Biden EVEN IF he was involved with Hunters stuff. This IS worse than Teapot Dome. These are not the actions of a man trying to drain the swamp or reform. Trump was possible the 3rd worst president BEFORE trying to overthrow an election. (some people would say worse, but Buchanan and Andrew Johnson still were below in my opinion until the election overthrow attempt).

[Charr Babies]

The path of a growing economy, low unemployment, and long term investing in America?

Like is voting for the fascist and most corrupt president in our history who also only surrounds himself with yes men really the lesser of two evils? I'm not saying the democrats have been perfect, but again, not the fascist would be the stronger argument even if we had triple digit inflation and doule digit unemployment.

20% increase of homelessness is not no small matter especially with a shamefully large number of homeless to begin with.
2 wars with genocide, and looking to start the third.
It is not trump who is responsible for the genocide, it is your democrats, at both end, who are responsible for the genocide.
Labels don't matter. End results do.