[PB79] MirOh No, what am I doing?

[Mjmd]

I mean that might make sense.

You don't really want to put a lot into either Xist or Coldrain as you don't want to antagonize either. Don't know how far Gira is from his UU, but putting ton into him is also somewhat awkward. One of the problems in small games. Can certainly reduce your weight and increase Giras I guess? Up to you.

[Miro]

T159 Update:

It's another peaceful day in China. We built The Chichen Itza, we researched Paper and HBR, and our AP will finish in 4-5T.

I got this weird demand:


I get it, coldrain may not like the guy, but calm down sir it's not like he's trying to kill-

OH. OH. Ohhhhh shit.


Ok let's say what little we know about the war, then about China.

War Update:
It ain't a land war. Carthage had ~15 Knights parked near his NA-border city a long time ago, but I saw only ~7 there with 4-5 siege units T158. I see no land invading units.
coldrain has a huge land force ready to defend, but he may lose some islands. No cities were ceased T158.

I have 2 Galleys moving north to check it out, but so far we see:


We aren't in this war, we told xist we would DoW NA with him, Mjmd made good points not to enter the war, I risk upsetting either coldrain or xist by joining/not joining.
For now war is still on the table but I'm not pushing for war and don't want to fight a slow land war alone.

coldrain just finished Chemistry T159, so he'll be able to whip out Frigates for their island war if he needs to.
xist will research Military Science ~T161.
Gira will research Astronomy ~T161.

China Update:

As I said, AP is finishing in 4-5T and I started University of Sankore in Star Realms, finishing ~T170. If I go for Divine Rights with Spiral Minaret, Christian buildings would be OP, especially nice for a large empire. I really like this idea because I never get to do it in SP. I'm sure going for Chemistry like everyone else is a solid plan and this may be a risky one, painting a target on my back. But it's fun!

We're steadily spreading Christianity and made many Castles.

For a brief moment, we had the #1 score at the end of our GA!

Here's our empire:

If you rather see it with resource bubbles, you can see it here: https://imgur.com/a/ItV97kG

Dems/Charts:





Questions:
(Q1): Do people make Catapults over Trebs or is that bad? I made some Catapults in preparation for non-city fighting, but now that seems silly to do when I have so many Cho-ko-nu.
(Q2): Do people not gun for Liberalism in MP? I was first to Paper while everyone else is more focused on Astronomy and Chemistry. I know those are great in maps with islands, I'm just surprised coldrain, with a Philosophy bulb earlier, didn't go for Liberalism into Astronomy.

[Mjmd]

1) You almost always do cats over trebs because in multiplayer major battles are more likely to happen in the open field. With protective Cho-ko-nus available I think you just build them?

2) Map dependent and how the game has developed dependent.

3) Ya don't get involved in this war. Its a sea war as I predicted way back. Not only would you have to slog through Coldrains land army, but you would be forced to match his navy. If Xist really easily rolls through his islands you might have to change tech path.

4) Speaking of. I like Sankore, but if you haven't started Divine Right it might be a better idea to do a different tech path. You aren't that far from lib as you stated and divine right might be a bit greedy. Education is also on lib path and getting started on 6 universities for Oxford is good. Depending on how things look you can either lib astronomy or nationalism.

5) I only see 1 missionary in production. I assume other 2 were moving? If not max production of missionaries. You have a lot of buildings to be building.

6) Related to tech path and spreading religion when is your next GA?

[greenline]

Which city would you plan to put oxford university in?

[Miro]

Good questions!

The two strongest Oxford candidates are Gloomhaven (capital) and Blood on Clock (GP City). BoC has GLib and some new cottages coming online, so that's the city I'm aiming to put Oxford in.

T160 War:
xist captured the island in the dark fog we haven't scouted yet.

coldrain ask's for assistance, I must decline:


We see coldrain pushing in, looks like it'll be a land war whether xist likes it or not!


China:
Economy screens I reviewed when considering Oxford:


Just finishing Catapults with hammers in them already, Knights production is starting soon.

I had 2 Missionaries in production last turn, but no, a 3rd wasn't out. Producing 3 at a time again.

I'm not sure when I want to start my next GA. I usually wait for Corporations, but with Castles, I'm happy to delay Corps for a while. After thinking for a minute, I'll wait until I've whipped a Monastery in most of my cities, then I'll start my 2nd GA. So within 10T.

[Mjmd]

1) Ya I'm not sure you could interfere let alone should. I would send Colrain assurances of peace though; send him a fish on just your side. Let him focus 100% on Xist. I mean Xist is probably your main competitor to win, but I'm not sure now is the time. This might be an opportunity to econ past him vs having to first match and then fight an even tech war.

2) While current science is a good indicator for oxford you should consider future science as well. Along with how secure the city is and somewhat how much production (can whip university but oxford can't (effectively) so some science cities do get ruled out if they are super low; Gloomhaven is certainly on lower edge of production but might still be ok).

3) You are a LONG way from corporation. What is your tech path plan atm? Speaking of corporations I haven't talked about much, but if you get a GE it MIGHT be worth saving for mining inc. Its pretty far away, but I saved a GE for a long time in PB75 and it was a good play.

4) What was that really large whip on pbspy?

[Miro]

3) You are a LONG way from corporation. What is your tech path plan atm? Speaking of corporations I haven't talked about much, but if you get a GE it MIGHT be worth saving for mining inc. Its pretty far away, but I saved a GE for a long time in PB75 and it was a good play.

4) What was that really large whip on pbspy?

3) 

1. Step 1: Get Divine Right without Mjmd noticing, pretend it was an error.
   
2. Step 2: Get Education, then Optics, then consider Liberalism -> Astronomy or straight Economics for Great Merchant, then Liberalism -> Astro/Nationalism.
   
3. Step 3: Head for Steel while resisting urge to get Printing Press.
   

4) Mine or xist's? Xist's -100 wasn't for a wonder, I assume he had multiple cities selected and whipped Knights from them all at once. Iirc, my T159 -67 whip was multiple cities selected to whip Forges. I check to make sure they already have hammers applied before doing it. You can see that T159 update picture shows many cities in Rome area with Forge (1) and I know I whipped some Forges that turn as my GA ended.

[Mjmd]

3.1) Greedy greedy but it could work out.
3.2) I'm really feeling the lib astronomy here. There is going to be a fleet build up and you don't want to be too far behind on that. You are already being greedy so no need to go uber greed for economics merchant. Also, requires banking as another tech to research. And with going Divine Right you have two prereq arrows for nationalism so makes less sense to lib that. Drafting is pretty good especially with your 30 cities and it may be worth teching before end of your next GA. I'll also note once you grab lib there is less incentive for others to go education especially while they are in a hot war.
3.3) why steel? Again with fleet build up going on I agree printing press isn't the immediate need (that and you started cottaging pretty late). I think the goal is weirdly enough military science for ship of the lines. After ALL the other things I would then do printing press and rifling before steel. Cannons are good if you want to invade someone over land, but not needed here.

5) BTW NOW is when its starting to be ok to build some wealth. Once you get missionaries out. Once cities are finished with infrastructure. Don't build a lot of grocers btw and I'm assuming you skipped banking for now. Your cities are ridiculously healthy. You'll want them pre factories, but right now ignore you have the monk wonders for economy. Once you've built up a small knight force. HE city stays on military for now (although during GA use boosted org to build its library and pro market); you'll want it building ships so time finishing for that. But ya you have quite a few techs you want to blow through here because I would like nationalism by end of GA and I want military science to start fleet build up. The slightly greedy order here is nationalism first (after lib astronomy) so you can start Taj in GA. If you had a overflow chain and forests somewhere this is a good time to use. I say slightly greedy because you can also switch into drafting earlier and draft maces/muskets to help protect your coastal cities and getting the free GA is pretty good.

[Miro]

3.1) Greedy greedy but it could work out.
3.2) I'm really feeling the lib astronomy here. There is going to be a fleet build up and you don't want to be too far behind on that. You are already being greedy so no need to go uber greed for economics merchant. Also, requires banking as another tech to research. And with going Divine Right you have two prereq arrows for nationalism so makes less sense to lib that. Drafting is pretty good especially with your 30 cities and it may be worth teching before end of your next GA. I'll also note once you grab lib there is less incentive for others to go education especially while they are in a hot war.
3.3) why steel? Again with fleet build up going on I agree printing press isn't the immediate need (that and you started cottaging pretty late). I think the goal is weirdly enough military science for ship of the lines. After ALL the other things I would then do printing press and rifling before steel. Cannons are good if you want to invade someone over land, but not needed here.

5) BTW NOW is when its starting to be ok to build some wealth. Once you get missionaries out. Once cities are finished with infrastructure. Don't build a lot of grocers btw and I'm assuming you skipped banking for now. Your cities are ridiculously healthy. You'll want them pre factories, but right now ignore you have the monk wonders for economy. Once you've built up a small knight force. HE city stays on military for now (although during GA use boosted org to build its library and pro market); you'll want it building ships so time finishing for that. But ya you have quite a few techs you want to blow through here because I would like nationalism by end of GA and I want military science to start fleet build up. The slightly greedy order here is nationalism first (after lib astronomy) so you can start Taj in GA. If you had a overflow chain and forests somewhere this is a good time to use. I say slightly greedy because you can also switch into drafting earlier and draft maces/muskets to help protect your coastal cities and getting the free GA is pretty good.

Oh I was thinking Steel for Ironclads. It sounds like they must be too slow in MP if you guys don't use them. I'm mainly being this greedy because of their war.

Ok, once I have infrastructure and Knights, I'll put Wealth building back on the table! Ok, I'll look at Nationalism before Steel then!

[Miro]

T161 War:

Watching wars is so fun.