[PB81] naufragar is a rock. He is an iiiiiiiiiisland.

[naufragar]

Yes. Lock in Hunting.

[Rusten]

It's also worthy of note that BW can be researched in time for a worker whip. If you account for the anarchy thinking that it's a lost turn at some point anyway then the worker only comes out 1t slower than a regular build (wb-worker). Could be something to look into. Whip overflow would go into settler in that case.

If it's good/better I can't say but it's certanily very unique.

[Cornflakes]

Naufragar: Boudica (AGG/CHA) of Portugal (Carrack/Feitoria)
The best combo in the list because it comes with the best plan: intercontinental armada assault with amphibious macemen. It's simply unbeatable.

I think somebody once accused me of "backwards-working justification." I really wanted to play Boudica this game. I've never done it, and I think Boudica has been mishandled the last few games I've seen. So I wanted to try my hand. The trouble is that I suspect the mean old lurkers put me on the veteran continent, where Boudica gets outscaled by the clever plans and economic combos of the other vets. So in order to leverage Boudica, we need a way to tormet the newbies. I worried about telling Tarkeel my plan when he asked because all he has to do is increase the distance between the continents, but I doubt he'd do this.

Last note: It's actually really hard for this combo to get Nav1 on its carracks.

TBS: Pericles(CRE/PHI) of America (Navy SEAL/Carnegie Public Libary)
If not for Boudica/Portugal, I'd be playing this exact combo, so I think it's the best in the game right now. Rusten is right about everything and especially right about America. It's stupid busted. If TBS effortlessly grinding us into dust is that it takes to revert the civ back to its glorious Woody1/Guerilla1 musket version, so be it.

Look, this isn't complicated. Phi America gets to do whatever it wants with ease, and everyone else has to work to keep up. I played Phi/Imp, but I think Phi/Cre is actually better for that midgame push when you want 5+ different cities producing great people with minimum turnaround time.

Last note: I signed up for this game to play against TBS. Can't be mad when he does TBS things.

Great analysis of TBS combo (note: I haven't read TBS's thoughts yet), I had that combo penciled in as first choice if I ever joined another game. But Naufragar: Boudica (AGG/CHA) of Portugal (Carrack/Feitoria) That is the reason I read your thread first, after the lurker thread. I like CtH Boudica, and would happily take this as an alternative combo. Have fun!

[naufragar]

Rusten, I've badly misled you, sorry. I completely forgot how I did that first sim I posted and had to work it out from scratch today.

It turns out I did indeed go Worker first. (Posting here in case I forget again. )

I go worker first. After worker, build a workboat while working max food (deer). The second pop point works the elephant. After work boat completes, move off elephant to work a grass forest. Start warrior. Worker moves to pasture cows. Work boat fishes the fish; capital moves off grass forest to take the fish tile. Turn 20 cap moves off fish to work cow so warrior completion coincides with growth to 3.

In the above plan, I go straight to Animal Husbandry without Agriculture, because otherwise the worker is idle for a turn. With Agri, he could still complete the pasture in time for the grow to 3/warrior completion date, though. I'll have to think about whether having Agriculture is worth the worker idle turn. Plus without Agri, we get BW on t27 and can see Copper before we settle our first city, whereas with Agri, we get Bronze working at turn 30+. (Unsure of exact date because we'd increase costs from settling city.) Need to think.

That just about used up my sim time today. I'll try to find time for the cool worker whip before the game goes live.

I'm glad you dig the combo, Cornflakes! In case you're curious about trying it out, here's some miscellaneous thoughts. I mentioned that it's really hard to get Nav1 on the Carracks. That's because if you're really rushing Machinery->Optics->Civil Service by way of a Scientist and Merchant bulb, you don't want to dawdle around Monarchy/Feudalism, let alone Theocracy. If you're waiting for 2-promo boats, you might as well do the normal Astro thing, I think. (Of course, you don't need Civil Service, I guess...)

On the other hand, one hopes that Boudica will be spikey enough that she could flex into Serfdom/Vassalage once she does take Feudalism. Hopefully, the neighbors are sufficiently nervous that we can get away without Slavery.

A lot is going to depend on how the game plays out (as always). I think Boudica has a ton of tools in her toolbox. Barrage 3 catapults alone will make me feel nice and cozy. While I'm rambling, one danger of going maces/carracks is that it ruins the Astro bulb path. Eh. Surely Charismatic Carracks can hold against Galleons until we research Privateers. Ok. No more stream of consciousness.

Looking forward to seeing this one shake out.

[naufragar]

I love it when the first turn uncovers something exciting:


There's gold in them hills.

Flying camera suggests land to the west within a galley's reach, with the caveat that I'm not good with the flying camera. Jungle tiles in the fog 3SE of the scout.

I decided to start with Agriculture. It makes the worker idle for a turn (or, rather, he puts one useless turn into a farm). It also delays Bronze Working considerably, which is scary when your opponents are accelerated Imp Zulu or maybe Persia. Mjmd in particular I think took Wheel as his bonus tech, which makes his copper hookup date very soon. Still, Agriculture pays for itself, and I suspect I'll need it eventually. Plus, I don't see Mjmd impi-rushing unless the distances are super tight. Zulu was probably for defensive impi and late game scaling ikhanda maintenance benefits.

I'm glad to find so many happiness resources even as charismatic. Pre-calendar (but post-forges) cities can get to size 8 just based on what I see here. Size 10 with Calendar and a half-priced colosseum. That makes me think I can avoid Monarchy and Hereditary Rule for a long time, which will be necessary if I'm racing for Macemen and Carracks. We'll see. Lots of game to play.

Settings look right to me.

[Tarkeel]

Settings look right to me.

Cheers, that's one of my big fears, especially when we've already had a false start

[naufragar]

My Agriculture first bet is looking really bad:


Oh well. Can't win them all. My worker is going to be very bored for very many turns until I can chop these forests.

Imp would be great here. That's my punishment for abandoning my true love of Imperialistic.

The water ways are interesting. I'm having a good time exploring so far. (Helps to constantly be discovering new resources.)

[naufragar]

We met our first friend.


TBS's scout moved in on turn 6, so at most, TBS's capital is 14 tiles from mine. Potentially much closer.

He's followed the same tech path as me, adjusted for different starting techs.

He can be annoying by camping my resources, but that seems like a losing bet against Boudica.

It's looking like I'll have two wasted worker turns from going Agri first, but we did discover our first Agriculture resource today.

[naufragar]

We love backlines, don't we, folks. People say to me, naufragar, you have the best backlines.


Too early to guess at map form, but I'll try anyway. I'd bet that we're all on the legs of an X with some sort of contentious jungle land in the middle. Feeling good about Portugal.

[naufragar]

WAR!!!!!

Be it known that the peaceful Portuguese (still need a naming theme) have been the victims of invasion!


TBS moved his scout in to get a look at my capital. Unfortunately for the both of us, I had a forest grow 1E of Lisbon, so he'll need another move to get vision. So long as he doesn't spend 5+ turns in my territory, there should be no danger of him camping resources.

I can't be bothered to do Cloak and Dagger stuff anymore. I'm too old. Bunch of people got techs on turn 11. Superdeath got a tech on t12 but a pop point on t11? There are two size two cities in the world, which PBSpy suggests belong to SD and Giraflorens. Work boat starts, most likely.

I guess my WAR screenshot gives away my tentative dotmap. City number 2 is settled for the gold and basically works that tile forever. It's an absolutely massive GNP swing and one of the reasons that Imp would've been great on this map. (Another reason is plains hill forested ivory! What a fun tile.)

I'm toying with making that gold city my Moai spot and the main production center. It's got +8f from the lake tiles without stealing the capital's cow and can get ~25 hammers at size 12. Need size 14 to work two grassland cottages, which would require Calendar, but this land plus Charismatic can keep a size 12 city happy pretty easily. ~31 hammers after infrastructure. That two-turns Carracks or creates a maceman every two and a quarter turns.

The only painful thing is that if the gold city becomes my naval hub, I'll have to kill two grasslands for eastern and western canal forts. (I love Civ4 maps. They create so much to think about. Thanks, Tarkeel!)

Pseudo-edit: Actually have to test it. I might be able to get away with a fort 1N3E of the gold city spot without killing one grassland.