[Spoilers] Defining the phrase "€˜Hung Like a Horse"€™: Pb & the Kuriotates

[pocketbeetle]

Is this based off a chat with him? Because its very easy for him to work out based on which tiles you have culture in

Half and half, I was basing that on his restricted sight range and the fact that previous conversations were limited to an approximate area for placing Avelorn, we never specified the exact tile.
Don't get me wrong, Selrahc definitely knows the rough location and can probably figure it out from the resources in the area.

Regarding cultural borders, I dismissed them initially as being too complicated to figure out based on the compression/clashing and also the fact I cast Legends straight after founding to instantly expand. But you're right, if he can be bothered to do a little bit of research into how much culture Legends gives and what numbers the borders pop on, he can figure it out.
The tile 2E of the oasis is probably the best indicator of Avelorn's location.

You have access to at least 3 mana nodes already - care to disclose the plans for those and when you will be heading that wy in the tech tree?

There's even a fourth above Caledor, which is another reason why I wanted to build a couple of settlements sooner rather than later.

Switching those questions around for the sec, I'm usually a bit slow on researching Knowledge of the Ether (KotE) and starting on the arcane branch. Really you want to start asap because you need to build a few adepts and get them collecting their passive experience.
I don't think this game is going to be an exception for me, KotE is once again significantly down the priority list.
Hopefully I should be able to mitigate that slightly thanks to the Command Post and Apprenticeship, helping me to build 4xp adepts straight off the bat out of Kwythellar.

As for the mana nodes, the first thing I'll need to do is fill out the requirements for the national wonder: Tower of Divination.
That needs Spirit, Sun, Law and Mind mana. Two of those I get from my palace, Law and Mind I'll have to find some other way.
I'm mindful that both Selrahc and Cull get Law from their palace. Both will probably want to borrow my third palace mana, Water, for a short period to get adepts that can cast Spring and improve any desert in their territory. So there's a possible trade there, just leaving a Mind node to be built.

The Tower of Divination acts like an Oracle, and there are two potential techs I'm after.
When I'm playing single player, I usually take Warhorses with it, which at 8k beakers on quick is a very chunky tech. That gives the Kurio hero Herne, and also enables Centaur Lancers (4 allowed, str 11/7).
Usually those, maybe combined with a Council of Esus switch for an extra 4 Shadowriders, allows me to go stomp over all the AIs with Blitz plus some Combat promotions.
Unfortunately that's probably not going to work so well vs human opponents, who should be smart enough to build some marksmen and take out those limited units. I may also not have access to cheap disposable summons like skeletons to help defend vs those marksmen.
The other option is Arcane Lore, less chunky at 3.9k, but very useful. Gives free GSci to first to discover (would be used for an Academy), allows access to the Crown of Akharien, a priority wonder, and would let me build Hemah with OO.
Warhorses also gives access to a priority wonder - Ride of the Nine Kings, but I think Arcane Lore is the favourite at the moment.

So...that's the magic plan. Regarding the other nodes, I'm not sure yet.
I'm conscious of the fact I haven't decided on a damage spell; I'm not so keen on Maelstrom, obviously can't rely on cultist's Tsunami as this isn't an Archipelago map, don't intend to switch to AV so won't get the Ritualist Ring of Fire, and I won't be beelining Chalid.
The Level 3 Entropy spell, Wither, is a possibility, but I'm not sure if it's strong enough on its own.
I'm not so interested in Death, like Agristocracy it's a little bit cookie cutter, and I intend to rely on warm bodies, not summons.
We'll see, I imagine a metamagic node will be included somewhere to allow me to switch around.

This forrest is inside your 'special' working area. Is your health calculated with your 3rd ring or is it the same rule as any other leader ?

Yup, definitely included.

Forests give +0.5 health per tile (can't remember if that's standard), currently the city health limits are:

• Kwythellar: 14
  
• Caledor: 20
  
• Avelorn: 12
  

Bear in mind Avelorn isn't connected up, and that Caledor has a granary and +8 health from forests which will decrease (Avelorn +4).
I knew health could be an issue at Avelorn when I chose to found it away from the oasis, but it should be okay.
It's easier to overcome the health penalty in FFH2, thanks to increased food yields from Agrarianism and an earlier Biology equivalent (Sanitation, farms give +1 food).

Obviously it's a bit early to be worrying too much about health, but it doesn't hurt to consider it when doing possibly irreversible actions like chopping.

[Maksim]

Obviously it's a bit early to be worrying too much about health, but it doesn't hurt to consider it when doing possibly irreversible actions like chopping.

Though if you ever find yourself short of health, remember that you can build those herbalists!

Seriously, I think that the herbalist is a wonderful late-game building - if you have Reagents, it acts as an Aqueduct, and is 25% cheaper, if I recall correctly.

[pocketbeetle]

Though if you ever find yourself short of health, remember that you can build those herbalists!

Seriously, I think that the herbalist is a wonderful late-game building - if you have Reagents, it acts as an Aqueduct, and is 25% cheaper, if I recall correctly.

Herbalists. ^^
You're right of course, it's actually even cheaper than that, 60h on quick vs 120h aqueduct.

Looking around the map, I may be over-reacting slightly as I'm pretty much swimming in health resources.
Wheat, Rice, Cows, Sheep, Pigs, Deer, all the seafood, I'm not going to be struggling anytime soon.

What I am low on is happiness resources, I've only got Silks, and the lower quality happy resources of Incense, Whales, Furs.
I'm seriously lacking in the resources that feed into the Kurio Tailor & Jeweller UBs, namely Dyes, Cotton, Gold, Gems.
I can see Ivory (another low quality happy) South of my borders, and a cluster of 3 Sugars in the jungle.
I'd be stretching to get the latter, but that's what settlements are for.

The Religion civic is also going to be a lock for a while (+1 extra happy for having a state religion, +1 for each type of temple), and is partly why I'm okay with going on this little founding fest.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 83:

Bob-A-Long cleared the forest on the silks this turn, chop goes into a RoK temple in Caledor.
Bobbin Threadbare moved SE and restarted mining that ph.
He’s going to be on mining duty for a while, working the hills above Caledor, with a brief stopover at the sheep.



Concepcion continues on its voyage, having heard nothing from Selrahc.
All quiet on that front, wonder if I should bug him.

Clicking end turn brings MftD down to 3 turns.


Demographics:

Yeeesh, will someone please tell these guys to do something?
Research a tech, grow a pop point!
Just do…something.

Saying that, Selrahc’s soldier count keeps falling.
Is he losing men somewhere?
- No, went and checked the numbers, he just didn't summon the Ice Elementals.

PoW are worth 12k soldier points each, summoned Ice Elementals also 12k.
So to make 74k soldier points, subtract 36k for the Priests, leaves 38k.
Sareln’s email had 5 warriors along with those Priests, add at least 2 more for garrison duty in the two cities he had at the time, 7 x 3 = 21k, leaves 15k.
Off the top of my head, I’d say around 8-9k of that is pop, leaving maybe another two warriors unaccounted for.
So Selrahc’s total military is in the region of 3 PoW, 9 warriors.
Compared with my 4 warriors (1 scout!)…well.
12 turns to Giants!

Apparently Cull’s city that Sareln is inhabiting is size 3 (Reference).
Coincidentally that tells me the rival best pop, 280k is composed of two cities sizes 7 and 4, ie Bob.


Diplo:

(10:47:56 PM) pocketbeetle: btw Selrahc said you abandoned your cities, didn't defend?
(10:48:28 PM) Sareln: yes. I preserved as many of my units as possible while getting out of dodge
(10:48:34 PM) Sareln: no point in defending against what he had brought
(10:48:39 PM) Sareln: since he would have odds against everything
(10:48:50 PM) Sareln: and if he didn't have odds, summon ice elementals, chuck them, and then have odds :P
(10:48:54 PM) Sareln: so it didn't make sense to fight.
(10:49:02 PM) Sareln: I did have to leave some units behind to buy time in the capital
(10:49:08 PM) Sareln: so he couldn't move summon-kill
(10:49:11 PM) pocketbeetle: I can understand that.
Did you pillage your improvements?
(10:49:22 PM) Sareln: wasn't a good opportunity for it
(10:49:24 PM) Sareln: else I would've
(10:49:40 PM) Sareln: so he picked up a pastured pigs, a pastured sheep, a farmed rice (I) and a farmed flood plain
(10:49:44 PM) Sareln: annoying, but not much for it...
(10:49:56 PM) Sareln: did I mention I had an incredibly poor commerce start? :P
(10:50:15 PM) pocketbeetle: Blimey, lots of food though. Can understand you going AH with that
(10:50:28 PM) Sareln: yeah
(10:50:47 PM) Sareln: the general plan was to get the food up and use eldercouncil scientists to float me to education
(10:51:09 PM) pocketbeetle: You were doing good. Hunting a couple of turns earlier and you might have had a chance
(10:51:29 PM) Sareln: yeah
(10:51:37 PM) Sareln: instead it was hunting just as he comes across the border.
(10:51:43 PM) Sareln: basically he went all-in on the rush it seems
(10:51:54 PM) Sareln: anything less and it would've been much harder on his part.
(10:51:58 PM) Sareln: I don't know if he even has roads...
(10:52:05 PM) pocketbeetle:
(10:52:22 PM) pocketbeetle: Don't worry, still alive, still in with a shot
(10:52:29 PM) pocketbeetle: Chip and a chair they call it
(10:52:39 PM) Sareln: yup
(10:52:41 PM) Sareln: that's the idea
(10:52:54 PM) Sareln: I just have to be very careful with my chip, as it were.
(10:52:57 PM) pocketbeetle: Question is, how tied are you to Bob now though?
(10:53:21 PM) pocketbeetle: Don't worry, you don't have to answer
(10:53:33 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm just wondering if you're effectively vassalised
(10:53:37 PM) Sareln: Decline to comment then
(10:54:34 PM) pocketbeetle: All fun and games!

Nothing much, I don’t expect him to suddenly take me into his confidence, just keeping dialogue open.

It’s more about what Sareln didn’t say than what he did.
He didn’t try to deny the vassal comment or offer any kind of different opinion, so I think it’s safe to assume they’re joined at the hip from now on.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 84:

Over at Kwythellar, Bobbo completed roading the oasis, moved 2E to start mining the last glh, 6 turns eta.

Bob Marley started chopping 1SW of Caledor, Bob-A-Long starting improving the Silks (4t), Bobbin Threadbare completed the mine 1NW of Caledor, will move 1N and mine there next.



Vanilla Ice is heading South to peer nervously outside the cultural borders.
Selrahc has nearly completed his section of Stelvio Pass, has left one worker to complete the last tile.


Demographics:

Well, I said I wanted something to happen.
So Bob decides to plant a third city…

…and research a 22 point tech.
Sareln also grew Cull’s city to size 4.

Bob:
Last turn that he researched a tech: T62 -> Assigned Anc Chants.
Next turn he researched a tech: T74
Therefore gap = 12 turns
GNP during period: 21-33 ie research 19-31

Problem is, 251b is in no-man’s land: it’s too much for Myst at 215b, Philo/Archery at 323b are not available to him yet, leaving Education (the likely candidate) at 301b, ie 50b short.

The reason why this is happening is second city maintenance costs are starting to bite.
If I want to keep following other player’s techs, I’m going to have to start estimating their maintenance costs.
Expect a lot of tech estimates to start falling short on beakers.

With Bob: everything he’s said and done indicates he’s going for Agristocracy, and Education is the most likely tech at this point.
To make the 50b shortfall, I have to assume his average maintenance costs while researching this tech are around -4gp/t (12 * 4 = 46), which based on Caledor and Avelorn’s numbers, is entirely reasonable.
The corollary to this however, is that Bob settled Nubia on T69, ie halfway through researching this tech, so his maintenance costs are almost certainly higher.

Assuming I’m correct, the next tech on his list should be Code of Laws.
CoL costs 345b, so at his current rate of 35b (31 + 4) it should take him 10 turns; depending on how many huts he popped and how much gold in his treasury, maybe a little longer.
If I don’t see him getting a third tier tech (22 points) within that sort of timeframe (and then revolting to Aristocracy), I’ll return and review this.

Bob:
Last turn that he researched a tech: T74 -> Assigned Education(?)
Next turn he researched a tech: T83
Therefore gap = 9 turns
GNP during period: 33 ie research 31
Additional +5 from maintenance = 36.
9 * 36 = 324b

That’s not enough for CoL.
Even trying to force it, and assuming he had enough gold to go 100% throughout, I’d need to be assigning a maintenance of around 8/t.
Which I don’t think he had (will do now though, 3rd city easily blows through that).
Plus his GNP has actually been falling off from 33 down to 30ish.
****!

So let’s review.
Bob has Agri, Calendar, Exploration, Crafting, Mining, Ancient Chants, and two unknown techs in the 250-300+ beaker range.
A dump of all the available techs in that beaker range are:

[strike]Mining[/strike]/Myst/[strike]Cartography[/strike] = 215b
Education = 301b
Philo/Archery = 323b
CoL = 345b
[strike]HBR[/strike]/ KotE = 387b

I’ve struck out the ones that are unavailable.
I’m assuming Carto is off the list, because otherwise why would Selrahc tell me he’s waiting 6+ turns to trade maps with Bob?

Philo/KotE would normally be struck out, but I have to consider the possibility that he slow-researched Mysticism for some crazy reason on T74, which would then unlock those two. 324b is a bloody good match for Philo, plus it’s a 22 point tech.
But that makes absolutely no sense.
Mysticism is awful for him, giving only God-King (which he hasn’t revolted to) and Pagan temples, while Philo would only let him use Incense in Pagan temples for +1 happy.
Seriously, nfw.

So, for the moment, confused. May have to call in Veez.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 85:

Okay, so where are we.

Caledor: Bob Marley chopped, Bob-A-Long…plantationed (), while Bobbin moved N.
Avelorn: Bob finished the farm, which dropped the worker being built down a turn.

Selrahc has completed his section of Stelvio Pass and sent me a message with the save saying so (see end of post).
Unfortunately it’s still going to be 7 turns until I complete my part.

I was seriously considering suggesting to him that he road the tile 2N of his worker.
That would connect him to the river, which with my Fishing tech would connect his cities up to Caledor and Kwythellar.
The punchline is: that I have the Fishing tech so would get the trade routes, while he who doesn’t, wouldn’t.
But in the end, that sort of stunt would only be worth at most 4 commerce per turn for 5 turns, so 20ish beakers. Nah.



In other news, Selrahc has told me he’s going after Cull (swearwords come later), so the brave Concepcion has turned around to head South, with a brief stopover at Kwythellar.
Considering netting the Clams, but I don’t need them yet.



Clicking end turn meant Caledor grew to size 7.
It’s at the happy cap, but will continue growing - 2 turns for size 8.


Demographics:

Demos finally getting interesting again, but not in a good way.

• Sareln gained points for a pop increase, that’s because his settler finally stopped running.
  
  
  
  
  As a rough estimate, it’s been around 6 turns since Selrahc took Thariss, which means Sareln’s new city is a maximum of ~14 tiles away from the ex-Svartalfar capital., probably closer.
  
• Iskender gained +1 pop in his second city?
  It’s way past due for him to be settling a third city seeing as he’s Expansive. No real way for me to tell however, considering I don’t have contact.
  Do I feel like begging info from Selrahc again? Meh.
  • Okay, just ran through quickly, benefit of having a thread with lots of screenshots.
    Iskender’s 2nd city founded T68, size 2: T73, size 3: T78, so size 4: T85 is entirely reasonable.
    
  • But I think I may ask Selrahc to keep me updated on new cities for Iskender when next we chat.
    
  
  
• Included the power graph to show Cull and Bob’s response to Selrahc’s Priests being in the neighbourhood.
  Keep going Cull, I’d prefer you not to die.
  
• More importantly, that little mystery from last turn thankfully got explained…sort of.
  • I’m not going crazy, it was Education -> CoL, as the first screenshot in this post clearly shows Bob switching to Aristocracy.
    I’ll go into Bob’s GNP next turn to try and figure it out.
    
  • His civics are currently Aristocracy (farms -1f, +2c), Nationhood (mil units +10% production), Apprenticeship (mil units -10% production, +2xp) and Agrarianism (farms +1f, -1h). ie balancing out nicely.
    
  • His GNP has visibly jumped on the demos, I’ve marked it to show where it’s currently at. Thankfully he’s still below me.
    Eyeballing it, I’d say he’s got around 5-6 farms currently.
    
  • But now that he’s on 3 cities, can build his UB – a modified courthouse, and has access to easy commerce, things are suddenly looking a lot less f’ing rosy.
    
  
  And to top that off, someone's being dumb.
  

Diplo:

My half of the great road built. Much celebration. One quick ground breaking ceremony and then to work on the enormous border guard/tariff collection centre. I think I'll need to work on a tourist brochure though. How best to explain to the carefree Kuriotates that they'd be better off being rounded up to work in the ice mines of the Winter King? I think I'll play up the excellent ski resorts. That worked for Switzerland.

In grimmer news, I've decided to go after Cull. I know you want me to take down Bob but it was going to be impossible to pull off any kind of surprise with his scout hovering around the area, and I was starting a lot closer to Cull.

So let’s get this straight. Bob:

• Along with the Hippus started with the most land, so much so that he can happily gift away parcels of it to Sareln, while here I am begging for my third city.
  
• Has mid-lategame military supremacy.
  
• Has an effective vassal in Sareln.
  
• Has reached a massive tech milestone, which will likely snowball to a serious lead over most of the others.
  CoL allows his Governor’s mansions for greatly improved production while at the same time reducing maintenance costs, allows Agristocracy for easy GNP, and is also a prereq for Fanaticism, which would allow him to get his UU Losha Valas, and henceforth, Vampires. If he decides to beeline Fana, it’s only 4 techs away.
  
• To top it all off, Selrahc is setting out to kill Cull for…approximately 140 gold.
  He’s already got more land than he can settle for ages, all he’s doing is removing one of Bob’s neighbours, giving the bastard (and Sareln) more land! F***!
  

Yes I know I’m just having a temper tantrum because I’m not getting my own way.
But it’s my thread, if I want to throw my toys out of the pram I will, and noone can stop me!

Saying that, Selrahc isn’t stupid. There must be some reason for doing this, surely?
I’ll need to meditate on why, the given reasons in that email are way too glib.

In the meantime, I’ll try one last roll of the dice.
He doesn't have to kill Bob - just raze a couple of cities, pillage a bit, and generally slow him down.
That would give Selrahc more time to expand and fill out the space he's carved for himself, while keeping Bob occupied and not building settlers.

Hi Selrahc,

Ski resorts sounds like an excellent proposal! The Centaurs look forward to sampling your excellent pistes.
Unfortunately the Kuriotates section of Stelvio Pass is behind schedule and over budget.
My advisors are citing a lack of workforce numbers, I am contemplating a move to a less liberal system.
Current estimates put completion at around 7 turns, sorry.
I’ve got another worker building as we speak.

Regarding Cull.
Obviously yes, I had a different opinion, but then as I said at the time, it’s your decision to make.
Saying that, a couple more pieces of info have turned up in the meantime which, if there’s still a decision to be made, I’d be willing to share.

Feel free to catch me for a quick chat tomorrow if you want.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Forwhomthebelltolls Boy-King

Seriously, I’m running out of descriptors to berate his choice.
"I'm drowning, and monkeys dressed as lifeguards are throwing me anvils."

Sigh.

Anyway, MftD comes in next turn.
Anyone willing to gamble against the combined wisdom of Sevenspirits and I, and bet that OO gets founded somewhere other than Caledor?

[Adlain]

So, how good are giants vs vampires

[pocketbeetle]

So, how good are giants vs vampires

Not good at all.


Diplo:

Chat with Selrahc:

(4:49:50 PM) pocketbeetle: See my email btw?
(4:50:05 PM) Selrahc: Yeah
(4:50:22 PM) Selrahc: I think I'm pretty much committed to fighting cull
(4:50:42 PM) Selrahc: But if you have anything to tell me.. go ahead
(4:50:54 PM) pocketbeetle: Well, have you declared war on him?
(4:51:01 PM) Selrahc: No.
(4:51:05 PM) Selrahc: Next turn
(4:51:13 PM) Selrahc: If nothing changes.
(4:51:25 PM) pocketbeetle: Really? okay shame.
(4:51:35 PM) pocketbeetle: Well, all I was going to point out was a bunch of little stuff
(4:51:48 PM) pocketbeetle: Checked city counts recently? Sareln got a second, Bob is now on 3...
(4:52:02 PM) Selrahc: I've seen yeah.
(4:52:13 PM) pocketbeetle: Did you notice Bob is now in Agristocracy also?
(4:52:33 PM) Selrahc: I know. He's all set up for quick expansion.
(4:52:43 PM) Selrahc: He actually told me he was getting ready for it a few turns ago
(4:52:59 PM) pocketbeetle: That means he's got CoL, which means he'll soon be getting Governor's mansions for production and reduced maintenance...
Plus it's a prereq for Fanaticism, so he's only around 3 techs away from Losha Valas and vampires
(4:53:16 PM) pocketbeetle: That's not good dude
(4:53:25 PM) pocketbeetle: Are you not worried at all about Bob?
(4:53:39 PM) Selrahc: I'm not sure I could do anything more than choke him
(4:53:46 PM) Selrahc: And get him pissed
(4:53:55 PM) Selrahc: I'd have needed to head for him
(4:54:00 PM) Selrahc: sooner
(4:54:13 PM) pocketbeetle: But that would give you time to expand into Sareln's ex area, get decent production and military to handle him
(4:54:22 PM) pocketbeetle: meh
(4:54:37 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm just worried that's all.
He's got an effective vassal in Sareln
(4:54:39 PM) Selrahc: I'm hoping he gets ina rumble with Iskender
(4:54:54 PM) pocketbeetle: If you take out Cull, you're giving Bob even more land because he's a neighbour
(4:54:55 PM) Selrahc: Oh, I did extract a promise from him not help Sareln
(4:55:23 PM) pocketbeetle: Not to help how? Isn't he already committed to giving Sareln a city soon?
(4:55:51 PM) Selrahc: To lend him no aid in war.
(4:56:04 PM) Selrahc: Which he wasn't going to do.
(4:56:07 PM) Selrahc: I guess.
(4:56:31 PM) Selrahc: But it precludes a proper vassal
(4:57:01 PM) Selrahc: as he can't lend him any real aid.
(4:57:20 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah, problem is, it's not really a war anymore is it?
(4:57:22 PM) pocketbeetle: It's just that you don't know where Sareln is. Were you tempted to ask him?
(4:57:54 PM) Selrahc: He has actually denied having any deals with Sareln.
(4:58:07 PM) pocketbeetle: Interesting
(4:58:29 PM) Selrahc: But... he does have a pretty good incentive for not telling me.
(4:59:29 PM) pocketbeetle: So what deals do you have with him exactly? I hope you don't mind me asking
(5:00:03 PM) Selrahc: NAP that precludes him aiding any of my foes.
(5:00:11 PM) Selrahc: Negotiated when I decided to go for Sareln
(5:00:26 PM) Selrahc: Sorry Cull
(5:00:26 PM) Selrahc: Not Sareln
(5:00:36 PM) pocketbeetle: A full blown NAP?
(5:00:44 PM) Selrahc: Yes.
(5:00:46 PM) pocketbeetle: Gosh.
(5:00:57 PM) Selrahc: If you want one I'm happy to give you one.
(5:01:03 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay, well I can see why you have to go for Cull now
(5:01:17 PM) pocketbeetle: Are you still doing the map trade?
(5:01:27 PM) Selrahc: To Bob? No.
(5:01:51 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay thanks. So I guess Bob is definitely in expansion mode now then. Hmm, gonna have to up our games I think
(5:02:40 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. Well I'm going to be going expansion too now.
(5:02:53 PM) Selrahc: You've basically already got that done.
(5:03:03 PM) Selrahc: Now it's just building up.
(5:03:17 PM) pocketbeetle: Yup, still got a little more to go though, and then lotsa settlements
(5:03:29 PM) Selrahc: Yeah.
(5:03:30 PM) pocketbeetle: Probably just cram them in, backfill
(5:03:40 PM) pocketbeetle: Regarding Iskender - is he on his third city yet? I still don't have contact, so could you keep an eye out and let me know about his cities?
(5:03:54 PM) Selrahc: Sure. Want me to check now?
(5:04:15 PM) pocketbeetle: Nah no rush, just let me know say when you pass the save along
(5:04:19 PM) pocketbeetle: I'd appreciate that, thanks
(5:04:40 PM) Selrahc: Sure will do.
(5:04:57 PM) pocketbeetle: Regarding the NAP btw. I'm not sure.
(5:05:07 PM) pocketbeetle: I specifically said in my thread I'd try to avoid NAPs
(5:05:17 PM) pocketbeetle: at the start. I'm not keen on them :/
(5:05:27 PM) pocketbeetle: But I appreciate the offer, thankyou
(5:05:40 PM) Selrahc: I've been generally following that. But Bob was really sort of paranoid about the priests.
(5:06:05 PM) Selrahc: I mean with fairly good reason I guess
(5:06:53 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah, the way this game is turning out, it's going to be a rumble the two of you at the end. Oh well.
Regarding Cull - if it's a choice of killing him and losing a few priests, or withdrawing and not losing any, which would you choose?
(5:07:29 PM) Selrahc: Depends.
(5:07:46 PM) Selrahc: I'd probably go for the kill.
(5:07:59 PM) Selrahc: Losing all the priests would be pretty disastrous though.
(5:08:13 PM) Selrahc: Since it's my only source of medic units
(5:08:38 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah I agree. You're going up against a lot of combat modifiers in him. So...good luck.
(5:09:05 PM) Selrahc: Yeah.
(5:09:24 PM) Selrahc: Well, this is kind of what I wanted anyway. Big awesome battle with the priests.
(5:09:34 PM) Selrahc: Should be able to keep him locked down with slow though.
(5:09:50 PM) Selrahc: So no counter attack mob.
(5:10:48 PM) pocketbeetle: Gotcha. Okay, well we'll see what happens. And I'm sure I don't need to say it...but keep an eye on Bob
(5:11:03 PM) Selrahc: Yeah, I will.

Selrahc has a NAP with Bob?
Seriously?

And Bob is clearly being liberal with the truth if he's telling Selrahc he has no deals with Sareln.
Do I think Bob is telling the truth, ie the deal changed since Sareln offered it to me, or Sareln wasn’t being truthful in his email?
Nah.

(8:50:15 PM) Selrahc: Forgot to check the cities. Doh. I'll send you the save and go check while you're playing it.
(8:51:46 PM) Selrahc: Yeah, he's on three cities.
(8:51:52 PM) pocketbeetle: Really?
(8:52:00 PM) Selrahc: Yep
(8:52:05 PM) pocketbeetle: Shit, thought it was only a pop increase
(8:52:09 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay, thanks!

<<Pb plays the save>>

(9:02:05 PM) pocketbeetle: Hadaee mada tawila!
(9:02:10 PM) pocketbeetle: Wa ana nahos ana wahala ghzalti
(9:02:12 PM) pocketbeetle: Wa ana nahos ana wahala ghzalti
(9:02:14 PM) pocketbeetle: Wa ana nahos ana wahala ghzalti
(9:02:37 PM) Selrahc: Um...
(9:02:44 PM) pocketbeetle: I dream of rain
(9:02:46 PM) pocketbeetle: ayeee ayyeee
(9:02:55 PM) pocketbeetle: I dream of gardens in the desert sand
(9:03:16 PM) pocketbeetle: I wake in vain
(9:03:18 PM) pocketbeetle: ayeee ayyee
(9:03:25 PM) pocketbeetle: I dream of love as time runs through my hand
(9:03:36 PM) pocketbeetle: You'll get it eventually
(9:03:51 PM) pocketbeetle: anyway, onto Cull, let's see if he's online
(9:03:54 PM) Selrahc: Alright, I'll take your word for it.
(9:04:14 PM) Selrahc: Just writing up my wardec email to him
(9:04:38 PM) pocketbeetle: oh dear. Tell him that his gold is poor quality or something
(9:04:52 PM) pocketbeetle: That's a pretty mortal dwarf insult surely
(9:06:15 PM) Selrahc: Yeah. I could probably do a pretty good one.
(9:06:36 PM) Selrahc: But.. I think I'm just going to keep it short and sweet.
(9:06:43 PM) Selrahc: Rather than go for the taunting.
(9:06:52 PM) pocketbeetle: oooh 'short'
(9:07:42 PM) Selrahc: The field of mocking dwarves is indeed a rich one.
(9:09:02 PM) Selrahc: Should I be keeping a note of that weird prophecy thing?
(9:09:13 PM) pocketbeetle: Only if you want to
(9:09:21 PM) pocketbeetle: There was relevancy, I promise
(9:10:26 PM) Selrahc: Alright. I'll keep it in mind.

No I haven't gone crazy.
Anyone here smarter than Selrahc + Bob combined and can say what's going on? (I gave Bob the same lines also, he got a little closer.)

[Jabah]

No I haven't gone crazy.
Anyone here smarter than Selrahc + Bob combined and can say what's going on? (I gave Bob the same lines also, he got a little closer.)

Isn't it OO voodoo song .. ie are you converting into OO (as your state religion or just the founding as I can't see the interest of SR right now) ?

[Serdoa]

Either you mean something about your upcoming religion or about the spell, I think it is named "Spring".