[Spoilers] Whosit & Pindicator Team Thread

[Chevalier Mal Fet]

Not Constantinople

and then They Might Be Giants references from there.

[Whosit]

OK, back home with more than spotty wifi. Let's get more involved.

Pindicator: I posted a question in PYDT's forum about me getting save access, but until/unless I hear back, for the days you are gone, I think you will either need to manually send me the saves, then I send them back to you for upload, or you might try to substitute option, though I think that's intended as a permanent option.

Names: TMBG isn't bad. Or Discworld.

Anyway, I saw the Civs our opponents' picked and figured I'd do a write-up. I see some re-rolled, too.

TheArchduke as Julius Caesar of Rome:

So much for being a builder, huh? Not sure what the other options were on the reroll, but this is an aggressive option. While I'd argue that Trajan can be a builder, Julius leans far harder into warmonger. Obviously, has the same kit as Rome: Legionary, Bath, free roads and trading posts. However, instead of a free monument in every city founded by the player, Julius gets a big chunk of gold for every barbarian camp and city conquered. A minor but important detail: Under JC, Roman units get an innate +5 combat strength vs barbs and gain full XP from them (normally, after hitting promo 1, all units only get 1 xp from barbs).

With Julius Caesar, it's far, farm more likely that those Legions will be used on the offense rather than as defense, and Archduke is a better player than me and will plan for an Ironworking rush if that's his game plan. Good thing I can say from experience than a bunch of archers, city walls, and a defensive governor can mostly put a stop to that. If we have Archduke as a neighbor, invest in early Archery and Masonry.

It's possible that TAD will only go after barbs and city states early on, but best to be prepared and keep an eye on Rome's military power and gold economy.

Personally, I think that JC is a little bit weaker than Trajan because the free monuments front-load a lot of benefit and since every city is going to build one anyway, is a huge production savings. Archduke is probably better served by building Warriors and Slingers instead of scouts. Then again, with the innate bonus and Discipline slotted in, even Roman scouts will fight evenly against barb Warriors.

The good news here is that after the Legion power spike, Rome doesn't have a lot going for it. Biggest danger at that point is a string of conquests that will give TAD a ton of gold.

Threat Level: High.

Yuris125 as Victoria (Age of Steam) of England:

I definitely undervalued this initially. Animal Husbandry first here for sure. Depending on how lucky Yuris is with strategic resource placement, the God of Craftsmanship pantheon can be really good (+1 prod and +1 faith to all improved strategic resources). Also keep in mind that Victoria's +2 prod buff does not require the resource to be improved. So, for Yuris, a grassland Horse (3/1) could become 3/4 with a pasture, or 3/5 with GoC.

And England has a very strong kit that will really take off in the Medieval era as Industrial Zones come online.

Without Redcoats, there's no special inclination to warmonger. Although my intel on Yuris is not comprehensive, I expect relatively passive builder play here. Could be a good target for Janissary rush if England is a neighbor and we've been able to keep ahead in tech.

Royal Navy Dockyard is a strong unique district even without the free naval unit that Age of Empire Vicky provides. Assuming Yuris has adequate access to water, expect a strong gold and trade economy, and a lot of Great Admirals.

Threat Level: Low.

Greenline as Wilhelmina of the Dutch:

This is a reroll and an interesting choice, but is on brand for greenline. Benefits:

Civ Bonus: Rivers grant a major adjacency bonus to Campus, Theatre Square, and Industrial Zones. +50% production towards Dams and Flood Barriers
Unique Unit: Stronger Frigate
Unique Building: Polder. placed on coast or lakes. +1 food/prod and gains adjacency bonuses. IMO, a strong UB since it does not compete with land tiles.
Leader: +2 Loyalty for domestic trade routes (sender), and +2 culture from foreign trade routes (sent or received).

Success is somewhat dependent on amount of water on the map. Leader trait seems pretty weak for MP, but the other traits can be quite strong if there's enough coast for greenline.

Might be some bias here, but I still expect greenline to be 100% builder. Capable defender, but I'd be shocked if he launched any wars. Viable target, but we'd need to be certain we can overcome his defenses (i.e., don't pull a me).

Threat Level: None.

Woden as Nader Shah of Persia:

The only player/civ pick I got right! How worrisome.

I already discussed this pick, but Nader Shah is a powerful warmonger in the hands of a player who has proven to be a capable general in Civ 6. Classical era power spike with the Immortal, Nader Shah might not be quite as powerful a foe as Cyrus (the bonus movement speed is hard to beat), but this is still a kit that rewards early conquests. If we have Woden as a neighbor, that alone is cause for discussion. We may want an early Bronze Working just to figure out where his Iron is. Of all the players, I'd expect him to try and knock us out before we make it to gunpowder.

My hope is that Woden spawned next to TheArchduke and that they will duke it out. If Woden spawns next to Yuris or Greenline, they will most likely get eaten.

Threat Level: Extreme.

[Whosit]

And now that I can sit and type, some more thoughts on Granaries and Herson vs PotatoMcWhiskey.

I'm well aware that Herson is the MP expert and that PMW plays mostly SP. However, it's very important to keep in mind that Herson plays MP with the BBG mod. I've noticed, at least in the current version, that all capitals are guaranteed a 3/1 city center tile. It's also important to note that Herson plays on Online speed. There's details like that which change the calculus on whether a building or unit is worth making. The mod granting all cities 1 amenity also allow players like Herson to play complete Farmers Gambits and build 0 military units unless forced to by barbs, and can delay making their first Builder if desired.

It may be that 9 times out of 10, it's best to hold off on a Granary until we need the housing. I just don't want us to ignore the 1 out of 10 times we want it for growth.

For example, we can probably skip an early Granary in our capital because we'll eventually have that Rice tile (5 food when improved). It's possible our second city may need a granary just to go from +2 food to +3 food per turn. I think that PMW assertion that it can be a 50% boost to growth is worth considering. Civ 6 granaries aren't as powerful as Civ 4 granaries, but growth is still king in Civ 6 and it's a tool in the kit. We do want to grow our cities large enough to host all the districts we need, and that +1 fpt might make the difference in some cases.

Managing amenities is also going to be important as mentioned. Minor PBEM 23 spoilers, but I was chasing that pretty hard for a while, although I believe I ended up doing so to my own detriment. Ecstatic cities with high yields are great, but I don't think it's worth it if it means allowing opponents to out-expand you. Absolutely, though, we don't want cities to fall into negative amenities.

[Whosit]

Lastly, I think I can play the turns in one of two ways:

1) Send me (privately) your client token (in Your Profile near the bottom) and I think I can log in as you(???) via the downloadable client.

2) In the downloadable client, there's an option to add a new user under "User" at the top. Might give me access to the game. (Again, ???)

[pindicator]

002

More rivers and a cow revealed to the south. No coast or other cities showing on settler view.




I figure we continue to scout along the north bank of this river with this warrior, and eventually swing to the north and back around to the capital. So W-NW next turn. In general I think the warrior scouts a bit and then returns to guard the initial settlers, while the scouts go farther afield to get huts, city states, and meet other players. First scout goes east to check out the Gypsum and 2nd scout probably goes south to explore the deer and south bank of the river.

For example, we can probably skip an early Granary in our capital because we'll eventually have that Rice tile (5 food when improved). It's possible our second city may need a granary just to go from +2 food to +3 food per turn.

This is in line with my thinking. I assume we'll want to build (or buy) the granary first as well. I plan on looking at this at a case-by-case basis, but in general I don't think we'll build too many because I like the idea of pushing for internal trade routes. An opening trader will be +1f / +1h - better than a granary early on. And with Magnus we can get +3f for any internal route to the Magnus city. Also another reason I'm keen to rush for commercial hubs: so we can unlock more trade routes and help cities to grow faster.

Will look at those substitution options later and get back to you. We have until January to figure something out.

[pindicator]

Not Constantinople

and then They Might Be Giants references from there.

Oh I could go for this. Or just get esoteric and name all the cities after TMBG albums

[pindicator]

004

Found someone's city:




Will send the warrior SW to find out who it is. Hopefully a good city state.

[Whosit]

If this were Civ 4 all that grassland would be wonderful. We'll want a city there at some point, I imagine, but seems baren of production and resources so far.

That city state could be a good early conquest target. 3/2 banana tile... We'll have to see what it is and what the rest of the terrain is like but we'll almost certainly get the first to meet bonus!

[pindicator]

Yeah, I was thinking the same about all the grassland. Production seems to be king more in civ 6 than 4 so I'd almost rather have a field of plains tiles instead.

But that desert to the north... I just realized that we have desert in the 3rd ring of our capital. Pyramids?

[Whosit]

Would definitely like to make a play for the Pyramids. Along with the Colosseum, one of the strongest early Wonders imo.

I'm sure we'll scout more of the grassland spot in time, but with the knowledge we have now, probably we need to wait for Lumbermills to make it viable. Always possible that strategics show up, of course.

With no mechanic to turn food into production (like in Civ4), and no tile improvement you can put on flatland except farms (excepting Unique Improvements and what some City States allow), I agree, I'd rather have plains lol.

Looking at the area a little more closely, though, I have another idea. Still wait for more tech, but let's say the capital puts down an Aqueduct 1W, and an Industrial Zone 2W. With 2 quarries, that's a +4 IZ. Buuut, if we settle a city 1NE of that river stone, and put an Aqueduct 1NE of THAT, we'd get a +7 IZ which is pretty good. Unfortunately, that city location has mostly terrible 1st ring tiles, and would need some gold-purchased tiles and builder charges to make viable. Still, something to consider.