[Spoilers] Defining the phrase "€˜Hung Like a Horse"€™: Pb & the Kuriotates

[pocketbeetle]

Oh my goodness.
Since you just made the 500th post in this thread, let's try for a quick reply and an extra extra(!) update.

All before Darkmantle goes on holiday.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 109:

Turn 109 opened with Bob being annoying.
Note the scout to the right of the shot, the dungeon 1W and hard to see, but there’s a worker 1NW of that.
In short, if he were to declare war and move that Scout into my borders, it could cause me some serious annoyance, including slowing down the Deruptus Brewery at Caledor and messing up my micro, forcing me to waste GA turns on building defensive units etc.



Sat and thought about it for a while, then went looking for Bob to have a chat.
Fortunately he was online.

(1:29:56 AM) pocketbeetle: Hi
(1:30:08 AM) BobChillingworth: sup
(1:30:26 AM) pocketbeetle: I'm just playing the save now, got your OB request on screen
(1:30:44 AM) BobChillingworth: ah yeah
(1:30:47 AM) BobChillingworth: my scout it stuck
(1:30:53 AM) BobChillingworth: there is a bear about two tiles above it
(1:31:00 AM) BobChillingworth: so I can't turn around
(1:31:03 AM) pocketbeetle: Have you tried asking Selrahc for OB yet?
(1:31:24 AM) BobChillingworth: [b]no, he's closer to me so he could actually scout me back if I offerd it[/b] :P
(1:31:37 AM) BobChillingworth: I just want to run out of your land the quickest way possible
(1:32:27 AM) BobChillingworth: alternatives are that I get eaten by a bear (regretable), or declare on you and explore the dungeon before the scout bites it (fun, but a mess to dump on poor Dave)
(1:32:50 AM) pocketbeetle: hmmm
(1:34:24 AM) pocketbeetle: Very well, I'm willing to agree on a OB, on the condition that I dictate that Scout's movement while near my borders.
Specifically I will be asking you to move S-S next turn, and I'll list the rest if you agree
(1:34:40 AM) BobChillingworth: sure
(1:34:44 AM) BobChillingworth: I have no problems with that
(1:34:51 AM) pocketbeetle: okay, sec
(1:36:29 AM) pocketbeetle: 1) S-S
2) SW-SE
3)SE (hill)
4)S (desert)
5)SE-SE
(1:36:40 AM) pocketbeetle: Fair enough?
(1:37:06 AM) BobChillingworth: totally
(1:37:09 AM) BobChillingworth: thank you
(1:37:19 AM) pocketbeetle: No worries, glad to help

I’ve bolded the part that pissed me off.
I’m pretending to be nice for now, but if any players enquire why I’ve got OB with Bob, it’s because he blackmailed me. :rolleyes:

I’m also going to get my own back on the Calabim for causing me unnecessary stress, namely in two ways.
One, I’m not going to cancel the OB after the scout leaves, and will try to get a Hawk scouting out his cities asap, assuming he doesn’t cancel.
Two, follow those listed moves and figure out where his scout ends up.
If you need a hint, check the next two screenshots.



So long as he doesn’t deviate from that path, I don’t believe he’ll get visibility on Avelorn with its one warrior garrison, which is good.
Although looking at it more closely, when he’s 1W of Mt. Stelvio, he could move W-E ie back and forth along the road, gaining visibility, and still have the one movement necessary to move SE onto the glfh.

[img] http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5108/ci...t0004r.jpg[/img]

Larry and Curly have lost their names, reverting back to simple, Hidden Nationality ‘Hill Giant’s.
The former Curly is going to be sitting on that hill in the North for…ooh…around 5 turns I think.

I’ve moved the Southern former Larry back away from Iskender’s borders, not ready to let him know we’re close yet.


Clicking end turn completed the Heron Throne (yay!) and gave me a bump of 28 points in score (oops), in addition to the 11 from HBR.



I think I’m going to swap out that OO temple from the build queue at Kwythellar.
I need to get a worker over there lumbermilling, but wanted a filler to allow it to grow next turn.
Will probably change to a Hunting Lodge.


Demographics:

• Selrahc gained +5 points for his capital regrowing to size 7.
  
  
• Bob gained 11 points…again. Meh.
  Either that means a free tech from somewhere or culture.
  It could be culture if he chopped out a monument quickly in Acacia, but the timing is tight.
  It can also mean that last turn wasn’t a tech, which would be a shame because I felt good about it. Masonry would have made sense, unlike the last bunch of techs which I’m still not certain about.
  

Included the power graph again to illustrate that Bob is definitely gearing up for something.

[pocketbeetle]

Are you planning to switch to working any coastal tiles with the Heron throne completing, or was it just for denial purpose because you need it later?

The reason why I posted the above T109 update before answering was for this question.
I want Kwythellar to grow one more pop first, but then yes, I'll switch to working some very yummy 1f/2h/4c coastal tiles at zero growth for the rest of the GA turns.
Afterwards I'll go back to growing and filling in the Ale + Cotton raised happy cap.

What is the plan for Caledor when the Brew finishes and you get more happy cap to play with? Max growth to catch up to the others and then infrastructure, possible palace move?

Deruptus will give Ale for +1 happy cap, plus let me trade with Selrahc for Cotton +1 more happy, and also another unhappy face should be vanishing soon. Even so, that's not enough happy for me, so I'm probably going to focus on working mines (to the detriment of some cottages) to ~75% complete a Tailor in Caledor by the end of the GA.
Once finished, that'll give me another two happy (Silks + Cotton) and ofc +20% commerce.

In general my approach is, that GAs boost hammers and commerce, not food, so I lean towards working mines and cottages/coast rather than trying to grow cities during those periods.

Now that Horseback riding is almost in, is it time to see some centaurs enter the world?

It is about time isn't it?
Really though I want some Hunters to go clear out the Bear-infested North and maybe farm a few Dancing Bears, plus some Hawks.
Any Centaurs that get built will be rapidly outmoded by the (hopefully) soon-to-be-appearing Centaur Archers.
So I might throw out one or two for garrison duty, but no more.

Let's face it, when you feel threatened by a player with a lone scout, you know it's time to build a few more units. ^^

Do you have any long term plans to terraform the territory you currently have or are you going to focus more on other magic?

Eh good question.
I want Adepts for Springing the few desert tiles/oases around Avelorn and Kwythellar, but I've got no plans for terraforming any river plains to gl anytime soon.
The main two options open to me are the Genesis ritual (not really something I'm heading for soon), or the level 3 Nature spell Vitalise with Hemah.
I've tried the latter before, and to be truthful, it was a waste of him.

So in short, no, no plans for terraforming yet. But I will need one eventually.
At some point Selrahc will build 'The Deepening' ritual, even if it's just out of boredom (it's cheap), and that will result in lots of tundra which will need to be upgraded.
I'm thinking maybe Druids if I'm running OO at that point.

Do you cackle everytime you realise you are the only "Good" team in this game?

Yes.

[Rowain]

I see a hungry Hill Giant patiently waiting for his promised scout .

[Square Leg]

The scout trap is pretty funny.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 110:

HBR splashscreen greets me, next up Stirrups and the promised Centaur Archers.
I can also give units Mobility promotions now, which can be useful.



Down in the South, Concepcion is still plowing on, met a bear this turn.



Bob’s Scout moved as agreed, switched Kwythellar over to a Hunting Lodge.
Caledor is now working max hammers (hence the drop in research) and combined with two more chops completed the Deruptus Brewery.



Kwythellar also grew on ending turn, Avelorn completed a settler.
Oh, also meant to say, Avelorn has been working a priest specialist since completing the RoK temple.
It's just a shame I can't take better advantage of the +100% gpp from this GA.


Demographics:

Sareln gained 17 points, probably some culture and a pop point.
His Nameless Tower Cotton outpost is at size 6 now.

Selrahc gained 27 points, I *think* that’s a 22 point tech plus a pop growth.
No idea what, but it’s been six turns since his last and his GNP fell from 85 to 67 this turn, as they tend to do when you complete a tech.
Wild speculation on my part, but assuming he doesn’t have them already, I’d say techs that are on his priority list atm are AH (Cows at Silent Night), Hunting (Ivory at Chestnut Roast) and the 22 point techs of Bronze Working/Writing/CoL.

I’m surprised he hasn’t gone Agristocracy, to be at his current GNP he must have put down some cottages (emergency measure maybe?).
Entirely possible that the tech he just researched is CoL and he intends to switch during his GA, which might make sense, it might also crash his five city economy again. *shrugs*
From what I can see, he doesn’t have that many irrigated farmable cities.


Diplo:

Greetings Winter King,

The latest Kuriotates invention has been completed on time and ahead of schedule.
Behold the wonders of malted Barley and Hops!

Feel free to demand shum of our Ale and precious Silk for...what was it again? White Fluffy stuff?
Yesh well, no idea what we'll use it for - maybe as a replacement to leaves for wiping Centaur arse, but I'm shure we'll find a use.

Kind Regardsh,
Pb, Slighty Inebriated Boy-King

[pocketbeetle]

Diplo:

Iskender caught me for a chat.

(12:12:48 PM) Iskender: hi Pocketbeetle
(12:12:54 PM) pocketbeetle: Hey
(12:13:04 PM) Iskender: there is a war coming
(12:13:26 PM) pocketbeetle: I guessed something was happening - Bob's power is going for you?
(12:13:31 PM) Iskender: yes
(12:13:55 PM) pocketbeetle: I think you've got time - think he'll probably wait for Construction and catapults
(12:14:25 PM) Iskender: i see his stack and two 'combat engineers'
(12:14:38 PM) pocketbeetle: He's moved a stack up? How big?
(12:14:42 PM) Iskender: i'm spamming warriors for the last 5 turns
(12:14:42 PM) pocketbeetle: where?
(12:14:51 PM) Iskender: i see only 10 bloodpets with bronze
(12:15:02 PM) Iskender: but i guess there are more in the fog
(12:15:29 PM) Iskender: i'll definitely lose one city, but will try to hold on the other 3
(12:15:50 PM) pocketbeetle: So he definitely has BW then? But no Moroi?
(12:16:12 PM) Iskender: yeah
(12:16:27 PM) Iskender: i bet i'll see some moroi soon as well
(12:16:43 PM) Iskender: anyway
(12:16:44 PM) pocketbeetle: Weird. You can't hold your city? It's not your capital I hope
(12:16:56 PM) Iskender: i was wondering if you were able to assist me in any way
(12:17:25 PM) Iskender: i can hold a city with my forces, but he's raiders and can bypass it with ease and threaten the core cities
(12:18:01 PM) pocketbeetle: I definitely want to help you Iskender, but you can see from the power graphs that I'm weak militarily
(12:18:07 PM) pocketbeetle: I might be able to get a giant down there
(12:18:35 PM) pocketbeetle: He could stand in your capital and hlep protect that if you want
(12:18:41 PM) Iskender: can you C&D if he's close to Horseback Riding?
(12:19:18 PM) Iskender: without mobility troops he'll most likely just choke me
(12:19:26 PM) Iskender: and himself as well with unit supply
(12:19:32 PM) pocketbeetle: I gave you a tech dump not long ago, since then I he's difficult to follow, but I *thought* he picked up Masonry.
(12:19:51 PM) pocketbeetle: I haven't seen him pick up any 22 point techs like HBR recently, so I think you're okay for the moment
(12:20:32 PM) Iskender: me neither. are you following how close he is to researching another tech, such as HR?
(12:20:51 PM) pocketbeetle: I can't do that anymore, it's too hard.
(12:21:02 PM) Iskender: all right
(12:21:31 PM) pocketbeetle: I think his last tech was literally 1-2 turns ago though, so maybe that helps
(12:21:58 PM) pocketbeetle: Where is he attacking, your North/ East or South?
(12:22:11 PM) Iskender: his west my east
(12:22:13 PM) pocketbeetle: Has he declared war/ talked at all?
(12:22:45 PM) Iskender: nope. building a road. quite a giveaway...
(12:23:03 PM) Iskender: well
(12:23:23 PM) pocketbeetle: I see, and are your defences split? is that why you're abandoning acity? Or can he go around it or something?
(12:23:58 PM) Iskender: he can go around it
(12:24:19 PM) Iskender: i'd rather sacrifice this city than put the rest in danger
(12:24:44 PM) Iskender: it's the fourth one, not really a devastating blow
(12:25:05 PM) pocketbeetle: Are you close to any military techs? Anything good ont he horizon?
(12:25:16 PM) Iskender: i'll have archery soon
(12:25:54 PM) Iskender: will you have currency in the near future?
(12:26:00 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay, well that's good news. So what are you going to do, abandon the fourth city and defend which city?
(12:26:04 PM) pocketbeetle: No, not close yet
(12:26:25 PM) Iskender: defend the one he's after
(12:26:41 PM) Iskender: he can't fork. NO FORK
(12:27:23 PM) Iskender: well. in the long term, he just set us both back a lot
(12:27:40 PM) Iskender: before this i had hopes that i would catch up
(12:27:58 PM) Iskender: i'll have to 'redefine my agenda'
(12:28:07 PM) pocketbeetle:
(12:28:18 PM) Iskender: worry not
(12:28:22 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah. Well whatever you do, don't vassalise to him or something crazy
(12:28:35 PM) Iskender: if i come out of this you'll have a good ally on the south
(12:28:44 PM) pocketbeetle: Im' going to definitely get one Giant down there, will try and get a second
(12:28:54 PM) pocketbeetle: So don't worry if you see a Hidden Nat Giant in your borders
(12:28:55 PM) Iskender: one more idea
(12:29:19 PM) pocketbeetle: hit me
(12:29:25 PM) Iskender: i could try to discover sailing, plant a coastal city
(12:29:31 PM) Iskender: do you have copper?
(12:29:38 PM) pocketbeetle: I don't sorry
(12:29:45 PM) pocketbeetle: That would have beena great idea
(12:30:01 PM) pocketbeetle: No copper near me, I'll have to use a settlement to get some
(12:30:11 PM) Iskender: what would be ETA for giant?
(12:30:24 PM) pocketbeetle: First giant, sec
(12:30:54 PM) pocketbeetle: Is close, I reckon 4 turns to reach your North border? Second is a bit further behind
(12:31:32 PM) pocketbeetle: Problem is, I'd probably have to declare war and stack the Giant with your men, otherwise easily overwhelmed
(12:31:39 PM) Iskender: cool, i could extend a road in that direction
(12:32:10 PM) pocketbeetle: I wouldn't worry for the time being, Hidden Nationality can't use roads, you're better off keep improving your land
(12:32:32 PM) Iskender: you mean chopping everything in sight?
(12:32:37 PM) pocketbeetle: exactly
(12:33:02 PM) Iskender: all right. i'll try to keep you updated
(12:33:13 PM) pocketbeetle: Thankyou for doing so
(12:33:30 PM) pocketbeetle: Oh just a heads up - I currently have OB with Bob btw. Ignore it - he made me sign it by threatening to pop a dungeon in my borders
(12:34:10 PM) pocketbeetle: He wanted to get a Scout through my land, it was either risk having something horrible spawn not far from my cap, or allow him too. Im not happy about it
(12:34:31 PM) Iskender: no problem
(12:34:48 PM) pocketbeetle: If you think of any other way I can help, let me know.
(12:35:57 PM) Iskender: sure

[FONT=&quot]
Can't say I didn't see this happening, the only surprise is the timing: I thought Bob would wait for Catapults. Guess not.

I do want to help Iskender, but I need to be careful.
If I send 2 Giants down there, and then Bob communicates that to Selrahc, he might be tempted to remove his other neighbour.
Depends where the Priests are, and how much Selrahc (according to a previous chat) delayed messing around with barrows etc.
Should be close, but I think I'll be okay and reach Centaur Archers in time.

From a selfish viewpoint, so long as Iskender doesn't fold and I don't get *too* involved (prefer not to declare war on Bob but I'm prepared to) this war is good for me, second only to Bob suddenly declaring on Selrahc.
I get the impression Iskender is not someone you want as a lifelong alive enemy.

[/FONT]

[Jabah]

Could you explain how your are going to stack a 'hidden nationality' with someone else troops. (is there a basic trick I am missing) ?

[pocketbeetle]

Could you explain how your are going to stack a 'hidden nationality' with someone else troops. (is there a basic trick I am missing) ?

No you're not missing anything at all. =)

I'll need to play around and confirm, but I'm pretty sure Hidden Nat units can't stack in any way.
So if I want to stack the Giants with Iskender's troops/cities, I'll have to Declare Nat and declare war/sign OB.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 111:

Selrahc graciously offers Cotton at the start of the turn, I click ‘Yes’ so fast my mouse blurs.



Meanwhile Concepcion came across a misty border this turn!
Looks a bit barren around there.



At home, the newly built settler moves SE-SW-SW onto the hill.
Turn log shows Selrahc switching to Agrarianism and Slavery this turn, which means the 22pt tech he picked up on T110 was probably Way of the Wicked.
Silly me, he told me he was going to do that didn’t he?



Selrahc is still in Pacifism though…which I’m a little bit confused by.
Is he going for a second GSci?
That’s pretty much the only worthwhile GP he can get.

Nameless Hill Giant moved closer to Iskender’s border, Sareln got a witch burning event.

Here’s a fun screenshot:



I want Stirrups asap but Caledor is busy working max hammers. That leaves Kwythellar to pick up the slack, and an impressive job it does of it too.
Not working the mines might look a bit weedy, but I’m not desperate for the hammers there - completing the Hunting Lodge next turn will give plenty of overflow to 1-turn the OO temple.



Ending turn completed the worker in Kwythellar, another settler will complete in Avelorn next turn.


Demographics:

Iskender and Bob gained a pop, Cull picked up some cultural score for Shadowed Vale coming out of revolt.
Selrahc switching to Slavery means trouble – lots of score decreasing and increasing.
Nevermind.