SPOILERS-Tatan's PBEM10 Thread

[Tatan]

Yeah, hope Kyan didn't be irritating and put iron only in the middle, too. I guess I was thinking of it from the perspective of double production w/ copper, which would make forge+colossus the same coast as lighthouse+great lighthouse without the huge impetus to slow your growth in order to get it, but of course there isn't any copper at all.

Of course, just because you get the Great Lighthouse, doesn't mean anyone has to sign open borders with you.

-Tatan

Some small talk sent to Cyneheard. Tried not to give anything away this time!

Also laying the groundwork for an eventual economic sanction against the thief of light.

[Tatan]

Woot! Let the axemen begin!




...or, you know, not.

Translation for the lazy/blind: THERE IS NO IRON IN SIGHT, NOT EVEN ON THE REVEALED SECTION IN THE CENTER!

Well, that limits strategic options somewhat. I guess archery and HBR just became priorities. Seriously, though: there had BETTER be iron somewhere in one of those middle islands. Seriously. Otherwise, we'll have to make due with horse archers and catapults all the way until GUNPOWDER. Damn.

And guess who has a resourceless Knight replacement? That's right, Meatbalz, playing one of the civs I put into the pool myself .

I guess naval dominance just became a lot more important.


Notice the settler Darujhistan is building; it'll take 5 turns to complete and 2 to load and unload, so the city won't be founded until T57. Bult is remaining in place down there to act as a garrison.

Speaking of which, contact with Serdoa established:



He still can't see those chariots. Hopefully, he won't know of my presence in the area until too late.

Sent him a friendly greeting email:

h3y k4n i h4z ur l4nd k th4nx bi3

Just kidding ! Real message:

Ahoy!

The sea-faring Dutch people and their lovable, midget leader send you greetings. A workboat of ours rounded the great cape that is across the sea from your territory to the NE, and then sailed back upon seeing your borders.

Anyway, I trust our two nations will be able to work together in the coming millenia to bring prosperity peace upon ourselves; after all, do not the Dutch have a peace-loving, even-tempered leader?

In the spirit of cooperation, I will share with you that you are not the first foreign nation the Dutch have ever looked upon; that honor falls on the brave Carthaginians and their C-obsessed leader Cyneheard. If it pleases you, may I ask if you have knowledge of any other nations?

May you sail with the tide,
Tatan

Revealed Cyneheard bit to a) foster trust [and hopefully learn who is on other side of Serdoa] and b) get something out of the info before Cyneheard makes contact 5-6 turns later.

I checked the Top 5 Cities screen for info on Serdoa's GL build:



Seriously, with three Chm civs in the game, it was Serdoa who built Stonehenge?!

I'm actually a bit disappointed, the GL would have been a great excuse to attack my neighbor. Oh well, that leaves Meatbalz and TT [unless Cyneheard lied to me about Greece], which is not good for me. I don't want to be mortal enemies with the aggressive civs!

Sent a note to Cyneheard about the Serdoa news [as I said, he'll have contact soon enough].

Checked out the diplo screen, and Serdoa also has 4 cities, and Writing [just like Cyneheard]; we have a trade route connection right now, actually, maybe we can get open borders going eventually, provided he doesn't kill me over settling between us.

Next turn: the in-depth Turn 50 State Of The Empire Report [don't miss it!].

[Tatan]

Part of an email from Cyneheard:

I just met Boudica. The Great Lighthouse is his.

[SIZE="4"]Meatbalz!!!!!!!!![/SIZE]


I WILL have vengeance, some day.




I'll try to post a Preliminary Map Sketch with the T50 update.

[Tatan]

So, bet you've been expecting a big Turn 50 Update. Well, you'd be right.
Dividing it into three sections: actual turn report, state of the empire, and future plans/speculation.

[Tatan]

Scouting

Looks like the island to the SW is seperated from the island to the W.



Need a city in the west, it's only a matter of time until Cyneheard gets there.


Holy crap, the SW island is fertile:



Also, notice the shape of that Russian city's borders: it is NOT the capital, merely another city. So we're not as close as previously thought, and I have a good shot at getting that city site.

Speaking of which...


Diplomacy

Serdoa responded to my initial message with this:

Hello Tatan,

I am happy to meet you and look forward to a mutual beneficial relationsship. I haven't met anybody else but to be honest that is probably due to me not doing much scouting till now.

May I ask how many tiles our borders are from each other - or phrased differently: Is the land I can see to my north only a small bridge leading to you or a real continent?

Kind regards,
Serdoa

Hmm, how do I phrase "WE ARE RIGHT ON TOP OF EACH OTHER" without alarming him? I respond vaguely:

Sorry for my somewhat tardy reply.

Don't have the save on me right now, so I can't be exact, but we are fairly close. The landmass you see the NE is some sort of island/peninsula; I am on the other side of it, separated by another channel. We are fairly close together, unfortunately. Of course, this might be exaggerated somewhat by our popped borders, but I think we are only ~5 tiles away.

I noticed we have a trade connection, perhaps one day we can establish open borders?

-Tatan

This is a complete lie. I know exactly how many tiles are between us: TWO FRICKIN' TILES, THAT'S HOW BLASTED CLOSE.

I don't want Serdoa as my enemy. I really don't want to lie about the distance and then settle into his face. But what can I do? That location is only 5 tiles from my capital! Sigh.


International News

I forgot to check the event log last turn, and sure enough, Judaism was founded in 1060 BCE:



No one has converted yet. Serdoa/Twinkletoes might have founded as second religion. I'm going to say Serdoa, based on the fact that his score is pretty big [wild guessing here, folks].

Moving on to State Of The Empire.

[Tatan]

Allow me to take you through every city.



Ah, Darujhistan! Mighty center of the empire, powering the research of the empire! This role will gradually be filled by overseas grassland-cottage colonies, but for now Daru is king. As you can see, my first cottage is already up and running, with plans to turn those other two grasslands into cottages also. I'm not sure what to do with the city, ultimately; probably a production/commerce hybrid.




The towering production complex of Mott, long since deforested of the woods for which it was named. Its residents have turned towards soldiering and sailing as a result of their failed attempt to build the the world's greatest lighthouse, with the hope of one day capturing the tower...

Despite only having three hills, I think Mott can be made into a fine production city, someday; those food resources can keep the whip running freely for the early period, and one day help support workshops on the surrounding flatlands. Need to build another mine on that last hill so I can get off of working the coast.




The growing city of Pale, still recovering from the infamous Granary Pop Sacrifice. I don't think I'll be whipping Pale again until I get the sheep and/or fish up and running. Pale will proabably turn into another production city, making use of the hills and its large eventual food surplus.




The backwater port of Genabaris is the farthest from the empire, but is no less willing to contribute. Its several hills and triple food will make it serve a similar purpose as Pale and Mott.


Now, you may notice that basically all my cities are going production. Why? Take a close look at the map at the top of this post. See any hill on the uninhabited islands? I sure don't. It seems that while my oversees colonies will power my commerce, my main island will have to serve most all of my production needs, at least until watermills and dikes.


Now, for assorted information screens.

Units


As you can see, I only have four workers, which is not nearly enough. It is hard to build enough workers when you know your cities need to be bigger AND there is all this land crying out to be settled.

On the bright side, my military is no push-over [I believe I am top in soldier count], although a third of it is oversees. Also, not too common that you see a galley before any workboats!


Demographics


Pretty much middle of the pack in three important categories. Couple of interesting things:
1)My GNP isn't actually that behind, because most of my enemies have wonders to inflate their GNP [more on this later].
2)Who has only 29 food, and WTF are they doing ?! 'Nuff said.
3)Yeah, #1 in Exports-Imports, there we go !


Top 5 Cities


Yeah, Daru is number two! It must be cool 'cause it rhymes. Anyway, I'm a bit surprised the other capitals are so small, with so many Charismatic leaders out there; maybe they've been whipping more than me?


Civics


Ha-ha, how does Serdoa not have Slavery yet? I know he's been pursuing wonders, but still, delaying BW for so long [espcecially with a food-heavy map] seems like to me. Not to sound harsh or anything, but, I mean, it is Turn 50. I've had BW since Turn 21! Well, this means he doesn't yet realize the precarious military situation everyone is in, which is good for me, I suppose.

EDIT: And that is to say nothing of chopping! I haven't exactly been a role model in terms of properly [ab]using slavery and chopping in this game, but still... I just honestly cannot comprehend this! Maybe he researched it but is waiting to revolt?

Next up: epic speculation!

[Tatan]

Builds


As you can see, Mott and Pale are both on fishing boats. Here's what they'll be up to: Mott's boat is off to scout the islands, while Pale's boat will journey up to Cynheard [no need to scout Serdoa with his borders blocking the way]. After that, they'll both build: ANOTHER round of fishing boats, just in time for their borders to expand and allow them to claim their fishies.

Genabaris will build that granary until size two, whip it out, and then get started on a monument.

Darujhistan will probably build a library after the settler, because: a) I need the time to grow Darujhistan out a bit more before going into all-star worker/settler mode, and b) more science is always good. I might even be able to run a scientist specialist for a Great Scientist Academy. Still up in the air around here.


Teching


I'm torn here. Honestly, I think I really need to go Archery after I finish Writing in two turns, in case Serdoa decides to get frisky, and also because I plan to be expanding pretty aggessively overseas.

After that... ?! Metal Casting is an eventual priority for triremes and forges [and workshops, I guess], but I think it can wait a bit. Ultimately, I see two paths:
-Military: get HBR for extra security; with no copper/iron, horse archers will be king for quite a while on this map.
-Economic: get Mathematics and then Currency, in order to support this empire I will be building.

I lean slightly towards path deux, but I could be persuaded...

I don't think Monarchy is an immdediate concern, because of my massive surplus right now [Go back to the Demographics screen, we Dutch are the happiest in the world!].


Diplomacy
No fancy information screen for this one, so here's my preliminary map sketch [And unlike the one I did way back when, this one is based on only 70% speculation! ]:



Diclaimer: yeah, yeah, I know the scaling is totally off, and some of the stuff is just flat-out-wrong [I also realized after making it that since Cyneheard already met Meatbalz, he is most assuredly next to Ad Hoc], but it serves its purpose. Similar to the Pitboss 2 map, the key here [after the initial expansion phase] will be to ally with someone in one direction and expand in the other. I am leaning towards Cyneheard simply because Serdoa is closer [and therefore easier to conquer ] and because Russia's advantages lie in the late game, but I am open to either...

Thank goodness I am far away from Meatbalz no matter what, Agg/Chm camel archers on a map where no one else can even get maces or pikes will be scary. I mourn for his eventual target [and with a leader like that, you KNOW there will be one].

I doubt either Cyneheard will attack me in early game at all; his Numidian cavalry are useless, with -1 strength in order to get a 50% bonus against non-existant melee units. Serdoa might, if I settle too closely, but his seemingly wonder-centric, builder-oriented leader/civ seem to discourage that. I think I drew pretty good luck with my neighbors! I just need to exploit that position.



And Finally...
At the end of turn, this popped up:


Aw-yeah, this isn't a totally lost scenerio yet! :2dance:


Thank you to everyone who actually read this whole thing!

Comments and questions are welcome, as always.

And may you always be to death the person who stole your desired wonder.

[Adlain]

Great Report Tatan - ill take one of these per turn if you please

Just a quick post to give my inital thoughts:

1) Do we really need 2 WB on scouting. I would sudgest that with the closness of this map that prehaps claiming that island to our south is our 1st priority esp as Serdoa has already asked about the closness of our Civs - a border agreement is comming i can feel it. whip out a 2nd Settler and get both spots we want so far (i.e. getting both Gems with asmuch food as posable.)

2) Tech Wise, I am in agreement, Archery first then my preferance is Economy - whats the point of getting militry tech if our economy crashes and we lose the ability to build anyways.

3) Demographs are looking better (WTF about the food indeed) i cannot belive the soldior count myself - all the more reason to get those spots agressivly now, Serdoa may be intimatated by the soldior cound of our civ once demgrahs are up and running, and lets not forget he will have ours long before we get his due to us having met more people (prehaps an agreement can be met to allow us both access to them ala PB2)

4) I love your Map

To round up - im thinking Whip Mott for a settler to coincide with the one being produced at Daru and get them both over to our island ASAP, Give atleast one of our workers over to the island aswell and chop out a monument for each city to claim those Gems ASAP.

I really will post back later with some more thoughts once i get my head around it all.

Adlain

[Kyan]

Can i just say firstly that you are brilliant. I'm loving the reports. The fact they're regular is a huge added plus.

Thanks a lot. It is most appreciated.

Now, i'll take my leave as i'm not sure i'm particularly popular in this thread currently

[Tatan]

Can i just say firstly that you are brilliant. I'm loving the reports. The fact they're regular is a huge added plus.

Ooo, a compliment from the Creator! Thank you, good sir!

Of course, the actual compliment itself is marred somewhat by me not getting around to the turn report until 6 hours after the fact, buuttttt whatever.

Now, i'll take my leave as i'm not sure i'm particularly popular in this thread currently

It's not that you're unpopular, it's just that one does not usually expect a map with no copper OR iron. I do appreciate the ridiculously fertile terrain though . As long as you did the same things for the other people to, I have no qualms about this map, it's proving to be very interesting.

Great Report Tatan - ill take one of these per turn if you please

Don't push it.

1) Do we really need 2 WB on scouting.

Well, I do think we need to scout out the central territory, and I also wanted to see how far away Cyneheard is [and the WB that does that can come back to net the fishies by Genabaris]. They only took a few turns to build, so not exactly a drain, especially since I wanted Mott and Pale growing.

I would sudgest that with the closness of this map that prehaps claiming that island to our south is our 1st priority esp as Serdoa has already asked about the closness of our Civs - a border agreement is comming i can feel it. whip out a 2nd Settler and get both spots we want so far (i.e. getting both Gems with asmuch food as posable.)

To round up - im thinking Whip Mott for a settler to coincide with the one being produced at Daru and get them both over to our island ASAP, Give atleast one of our workers over to the island aswell and chop out a monument for each city to claim those Gems ASAP.

Hmm, gutsy. I like it. Mott is running out of improved tiles, anyway. For a starting food resource, the eastern city has the pigs on the home island [which are already pastured], and the western city will have the fishies near Mott. Depending on how long chops will take, it might be better [and easier] just to grow to size two and slave out a monument.

2) Tech Wise, I am in agreement, Archery first then my preferance is Economy - whats the point of getting militry tech if our economy crashes and we lose the ability to build anyways.

Alright, Archery->Mathematics->Currency it is.

3) Demographs are looking better (WTF about the food indeed) i cannot belive the soldior count myself - all the more reason to get those spots agressivly now, Serdoa may be intimatated by the soldior cound of our civ once demgrahs are up and running, and lets not forget he will have ours long before we get his due to us having met more people (prehaps an agreement can be met to allow us both access to them ala PB2)

Yeah, Demogs are looking up, and they should get better as I settle those extra cities. I'm not paying TOO much attention to GNP right now, because rival GNPs are being inflated by culture from wonders.

Incidentally, we were passed in the soldier count this turn, so so long for that advantage.

4) I love your Map

It is, after all, an extremely accurate map, right to the smallest detail. Naturally I won't be using it.


Okay, enough procrastination, time for turn report. Maybe.