[Spoilers] Defining the phrase "€˜Hung Like a Horse"€™: Pb & the Kuriotates

[T-hawk]

Any idea if it's possible to locate opponent's Carriers using OB & Fighters?

Almost certainly not. You can't even load land units onto another player's ship, so almost certainly not air units either.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 125:

Starting over in the West: the third CA, Dexamenus, heads to Avelorn.
Amycus will move to garrison the soon-to-be-founded Sugar settlement.



Up North, as expected the Bear continues pursuing Cloverleaf, leaving a newly healed Pixiefoot to come in and clean up at 95% odds (now 11xp, 3.1/4 health).



Because Pixiefoot also has the Subdue Animal Promotion, that fight also spawns an injured HN Bear for the Kurios.



It’ll head over to Kwythellar to settle as a Dancing Bear for +1 happy (and a little culture).
I fully intend to farm a Bear for each of the megacities from that Den.

Running a Hawk over Selrahc’s land in the East reveals that the top two Priests seem to have moved.
Will have to keep an eye on that.



Settler #1 moves onto the jungle tile 2S of the Copper, the Southern Hill Giant (renamed to Curly, no point in trying to fake anonymity while covering a clearly flagged Kurio settler) moves to cover.
Newly produced Settler #2 moves from Avelorn to Diso, destined for c3.

Meanwhile Vanilla Ice has a couple of options:



To the West, you can see a Hippus Scout (str 2), promoted to Flanking I?
That seems a bit of a strange thing to do, but I guess what he’s aiming for/saying is that Scout strength is so low, there’s no point trying to increase it using Guerilla/Woodsman promotions etc. Iskender would rather the unit just have a 20% chance of withdrawing from the fight when it (inevitably) loses.
Might be a good tip that…

Anyway, to the East, there’s a Goblin, which I would assume has just been spawned by the Fort 2E.



I really want to pick up another 1xp on Vanilla Ice to promote to Mobility I (3 movement, allows two tiles per turn in this thick jungle).
88% odds again, good enough for me, let’s go.



Ouch, not great.
0.2/4 health left, and he’s poisoned (slower healing rate) from the Goblin. But he lived and gained xp.
So long as no Goblin Archers sally from that Fort, he’ll promote, move back to heal in the Sugar settlement, and then head out again.

Kes takes a look around:



Interesting picture.
To the South, we have Iskender being very buddy-buddy with the Calabim and the Svartalfar, going so far as to place an unguarded worker right next to their borders/military units. (The Svart unit is a Hunter btw).
We also have a significant number of Bloodpets (military advisor says 15 bloodpets, 3 workers), and some cramped city spacing.
To the NE of Morr’ta’nar there’s a stand of Ancient Forest, so it looks like Sareln is quite happy to share the benefits of FoL with Bob (not surprising).
Because the Calabim are in a GA, all those fp farms are yielding 4f/4c. Bleh.
Pastured Cow means he has AH.

All in all, about what I expected. Serious amount of river around there though.



Clicking end turn means Kwythellar grows to size 18, Kar Karond to size 5, first natural religion spread (of the game?) is OO in Diso.
Caledor finishes a third Hawk and starts on the Kurio Palace.
I think that may be enough Hawks for now, maybe one more at most.
Each Hawk costs unit maintenance and counts in the ‘away from home/unit supply’ column if you explore outside your borders during the turn.
As a result they can be expensive and it’s easy to overspam them.

BW will complete next turn.

The Calabim founded their sixth city: Adonias.


Demographics:

Going to do a quick 25t dump of the demographics, given that we haven’t seen the graphs for a while.

City screen:

Kwythellar won’t be growing above 18 for a while, indeed it will go -unhappy- when the Palace moves unless I get that Dancing Bear over there quickly.
General configuration is that Kwythellar and Avelorn are acting as production centres, Caledor and Kar Karond are busy growing.
Happy cap in Kar Karond may seem low, but that’s because it doesn’t have RoK yet (2 happy + RoK temple 1 happy).


Expenses screen:

Also known as the ‘Ouch’ screen, Unit Cost and City Maintenance are the major factors.
I think I said a while back that my unit supply would increase with # of settlements founded; looks like I was wrong (not for the first time).
It’s gone up a tiny bit recently, but clearly there’s other factors, sigh.
Inflation rate is at 25%.


Military Advisor:

Starting to fill out nicely.


And the usual graphs:

GNP graph shows that inadvertent jump from researching Drama at full pelt. Doesn’t look so bad on the 50t scale, looks worse on the usual 0t graph.
I was wrong a couple of turns back when I said Selrahc was #2 GNP, despite City States his economy is still suffering from the city spam, and it’s actually Iskender who has moved into the clear GNP lead.
The Calabim GNP has barely budged at all, implying that he’s using this GA for increased production, particularly into the recently built multiple settlers.

Then there’s the Power graph, which has a very pretty pink line at a nice and steep angle.
The effect of the 2t CAs out of Kwythellar is clear from the ‘stepping’.

Finally, something that amuses me even though it’s meaningless:

[SevenSpirits]

Finally, something that amuses me even though it’s meaningless:

You know what would have been awesome? Save Legends, make a bunch of settlers, settle them all at once, use two culture bombs and Legends... surprise Domination Win! Too bad that's just a tiny bit implausible.

[pocketbeetle]

You know what would have been awesome? Save Legends, make a bunch of settlers, settle them all at once, use two culture bombs and Legends... surprise Domination Win! Too bad that's just a tiny bit implausible.

I think this calls for some silly pictures!

Or in the theme of my last tech thread post:

But yes, the reactions of the other players on encountering a T100 domination win would have been...memorable to say the least.


Edit:

That first picture is rather fair to Rooney, isn't it.

I don't understand, are you saying that Rooney looks good in it?
If so, I agree. He's normally more photogenic from the back. ^^

[Krill]

That first picture is rather fair to Rooney, isn't it.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 126:

In the North, Pixiefoot makes another Ursus friend.



Takes more damage than I would like though, will have to heal for a couple of turns before she can get another 90+% battle.



Turnlog shows that Iskender has declared war on Bob/DaveV.
More on that later.


In the South, Vanilla Ice survived a night badly wounded close to the Goblin Fort.
Before retreating, Kes goes on another flight to scope out any action on the Calabim-Hippus front, and finds…



…an aggressive worker invasion?
There’s a settler underneath the fortified Hippus warrior, 1W of the Rice/ 2E of the Horses.
Vanilla Ice then promotes to Mobility and moves 2NW.

Iskender’s Scout moved 1NW this turn and seems to be checking out the Sugars.
Moved Curly and Settler #1 onto c4 to stake my claim, the tooltip is currently hovering over Amycus and Settler #2 who are farther NW.



One Hawk rebases to Cloverleaf to get vision on Selrahc’s city “Let it Snow” next turn, the other flies over Hippus lands.

Switched to 100% research again to finish off BW, and this time did it properly and deselected the next tech.



No prizes for guessing which tech will be bulbed next turn.
Research path will continue on to Writing next - a Library in Caledor alone should be worth ~20bpt at 100% research.


Demographics:

GNP at 50% research = 183, GNP at 100% research minus prereq bonus = 186.
Fine by me, should be no jump.
Soldier count continues to climb, I *think* Kwythellar may produce a 1t CA for T127.

In foreign news, the Calabim settled their seventh city: San’ta’ron.
Score-wise, it appears all of the major contenders (Selrahc/Bob/Iskender) researched a 22pt tech this turn.

Amusingly, the map tells me Cull has built walls in both of his visible cities (Khazak & Shadowed Vale).
Guess he’s not keen on Selrahc paying him a second visit. ^^

[pocketbeetle]

Diplo:

(4:34:39 PM) BobChillingworth: anyway, what is up?
<<snip>>
(4:36:03 PM) pocketbeetle: Umm, no real reason, thought I'd fish into why you and the Hipus are at war again, that's all?
(4:36:17 PM) pocketbeetle: Seemed a bit weird to me, misclick?
(4:36:22 PM) BobChillingworth: aha he actually did it
(4:36:23 PM) BobChillingworth: so silly
(4:36:30 PM) BobChillingworth: it's some sort of worker exchange program
(4:36:46 PM) pocketbeetle: ?
(4:36:48 PM) pocketbeetle: why?
(4:36:48 PM) BobChillingworth: I personally was against it, because it makes no goddamn sense, but apparently both of them like it
(4:37:14 PM) BobChillingworth: I don't know, I think the hippus guy lacks BW and would like us to do a chopping job for him somewhere
(4:37:19 PM) BobChillingworth: and you can't do that unless at war
(4:37:29 PM) pocketbeetle: chopping job?
(4:37:34 PM) pocketbeetle: of jungle?
(4:37:35 PM) BobChillingworth: right, jungles
(4:37:41 PM) pocketbeetle: I see. Any idea where?
(4:37:45 PM) BobChillingworth: none
(4:38:16 PM) BobChillingworth: wasn't my plan... I thought that getting rid of the trade route peace bonus and having to pay very careful attention to unit moves was too much of a hassle to be worth it
(4:38:37 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah I'd agree. Trade routes could be worth a lot eventually
(4:38:56 PM) pocketbeetle: Oh well, thanks for letting me know. I'm still confused.. but maybe a little less :D
(4:39:02 PM) BobChillingworth: both Iskender and Dave seem happy with it, so whatever
(4:39:06 PM) pocketbeetle: true!
(4:39:30 PM) BobChillingworth: the world is too peaceful tho
(4:39:35 PM) BobChillingworth: you should declare on selrahc
(4:39:50 PM) pocketbeetle: I was just about to type "so go declare on Selrahc" :D
(4:40:03 PM) pocketbeetle: Nobody wants to mess with those Priests..still
(4:40:09 PM) BobChillingworth: man I am already in a war! Did you not read the above!?
(4:40:25 PM) BobChillingworth: sheesh you pansy. Just go build bambur if you haven't already
(4:40:31 PM) BobChillingworth: bambur is totally l33t
(4:40:46 PM) pocketbeetle: Noted! Will go do so right now....maybe
(4:40:56 PM) pocketbeetle: Oh well, guess I'll drop Iskender an email, ask him for more specifics.
(4:41:07 PM) pocketbeetle: Thankyou for answering though, appreciated
(4:41:22 PM) BobChillingworth: sure, I have no idea what explanation he has, just repeating what I can understand from Dave's thread updates
(4:41:40 PM) BobChillingworth: so don't quote me too liberally, I didn't talk to Iskender at all about it :P
(4:41:48 PM) pocketbeetle: Understood!

Doesn’t take a genius to figure out what jungle tiles Iskender probably wants chopped, particularly when combined with a worker roading up there:



I could be mistaken, and in actual fact Iskender just wants the jungled Pigs 1E-1NE of Conrond Mor chopped by the Calabim.
But then, those same Pigs could also sprout wings and fly.

I’ve been putting off contacting Iskender about the Gems site (noted at the end of the post here).
Guess I can’t any longer.

[COLOR="hotPink"]Hi Iskender,

A while back we chatted about the Gems resources between us and how we could split them up. We agreed not to rush settle it, and to try and work something out later.
We both have stuck to that agreement and I just wanted to say I really appreciate that, I think it indicates that we can work well together in the future.

As you may know, I’ve now settled all four of my cities, have placed a few settlements recently, and I’m looking to build one settlement in that area.

There’s a couple of reasons for this:
1) Obviously I’d like to pick up one of those Gems resources – they’re worth a lot to me for happy + RoK temples.
2) I would like to place a buffer city between my fourth city and your borders, so I don’t have to worry about losing workable tiles to a culture battle.

With that in mind, I quickly took this screenshot, and added some colours:



The green square is where Kar Karond is located; the purple line/boundary indicates the tiles that it will eventually be able to work.
PLEASE NOTE: I cannot accept anyone trying to culturally steal tiles from my megacities.
I only get four cities, if I let people take tiles away from them, then I might as well surrender now.

As such, the red shaded area is where I cannot and will not tolerate a city being founded, as such a city would claim one or more of Kar Karond’s tiles with its second cultural ring.
I’ve also marked on that screenshot where I would like to place my settlement.
This will be a low culture (initially no-culture) settlement, picking up one of the Gems and buffering Kar Karond.

I don’t know if (when?) you’re intending to settle in this area, but I realise that the tile yields from the Gems could be useful for you (and mean nothing to me).
So if you wanted to try and compete culturally -with the defensive settlement-, to pick up both Gems with one city, I wouldn’t have a problem with that so long as we have the understanding that you would supply the spare Gems to me.

Final note: I’m sorry if my language in this email seems strong.
I’m just trying to make you understand, that I consider this very important to me, and if we can’t work something out then my options will be very limited.

Let me know what you think, hopefully we can reach an agreement that is satisfactory for both of us.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Has Minerals Boy-King[/COLOR]

Also dropped Sareln a note.
Judging from the roading, it looks like the Svartalfar are preparing to found their third city North of Nameless Tower, smack bang in the middle of the Dyes:



It could be inexperience of course, and Sareln not realising that the Southern Dyes within his border needs no roading thanks to the river… but I underestimated him at the start of this game, so let’s give him the benefit of the doubt.

If so, settling up there is not a bad move at all, he does need the GNP.
But what about his FoL holy city?

[COLOR="hotPink"]Hi Sareln,

Just a quick note to say hi, wanted to keep lines of communication open etc.
Also noticed you founded FoL not too long ago, congratulations on that!

I’ve been exploring the map a bit more, trying to find a way for us to set up a trade route. It’s proving difficult however, even your most Northern city is a long way away from me.

If you want to discuss anything, if I can help at all, let me know.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Gracious Boy-King[/color]

Similar message sent to Cull.

Quick reply back from Sareln:

Hey PB, yeah, I'm still here.

I'm fairly certain I saw your workboat go by at some point, so we
could probably set up a coastal connection if Iskender is willing, I
don't see any reason why he wouldn't be...

I'm currently putting hunter/hawk pairs to get a feel for the land.
If you're locked behind Selrahc it's going to be difficult to get a
non-coastal trade route up. The middle of the map isn't particularly
interesting, just a whole lot of jungle and rivers.

-Sareln-

[COLOR="hotPink"]Hey Sareln,

That was indeed the brave Kuriotates ship "Concepcion"!
Are you saying that your Schwartzwald city is connected to Nameless Tower?
I have no definite plan to research Sailing soon unfortunately, but if they are connected then that certainly seems like the best way forward.
I've already mapped out a clear coastal route between our cities, and the only way that could be blocked is if Iskender decided to declare on one or both of us.
The only other alternative I can see is trying to hijack a river (might be possible).

Anyway, hang in there, try to avoid all the crazy warmongers (for some reason the Hippus and Calabim are at it again?), and if you figure out what on earth is going on with those Goblin Forts, let me know.

Regards,
Pb[/color]

Schwartzwald is connected to Namless Tower, yes. Not quite sure how,
since I don't have OB with the Calabim yet, but I'm getting the
traderoute commerce so it must be so.

Rivers are certainly hijackable. Nameless tower sits at a confluence
of rivers at the center of the map, so much so that Iskender and I
have a trade route connection by virtue of rivers alone. We're
definitely looking at low-profile for now.

-Sareln-

Reply back from Iskender:

Greetings Wise King Pocketbeetle

Your message adresses two issues. Let me answer them separately.

First, me fouding a city. I want to settle on the tile south of the
cows. The spot is within the red area, but I believe that with a
little good faith you may find the following arguments for me settling
there reasonable:

1. If I settled there our cities would share only two tiles and I'm
already willing to concede both to you by declaring not to build any
buildings that generate culture other than a monument and one temple.
2. The spot is four tiles away from my capital and I consider it a
part of my core lands. I would have settled the area earlier had
jungle not grown over the gems. If I agreed to follow your guidelines
I would be forced to settle within three tiles of my capital otherwise
the capital would have been my border city.


Now the Gems. There've been some arrangements about them made between
me and Dave. I've let him clear the jungle in both tiles in exchange
for delivering him Gems for 15 turns. His worker is already on his
way. I've agreed to give him the second Gems (in order of clearing
and hooking) once they are connected and I keep the first. My offer is
following: I'll trade you first Gems for a happiness resource as soon
as they are hooked (which should take place in about 12 turns) and
once my deal with the Calabim expires I'll supply you the other Gems
for free. It presupposes of course that I have culture control over
both Gems tiles and that is my only condition. One source of Gems is
enough for me, but I'd like to have access to both tiles for the
yields.

I know I'm in no position to be choosy. The above offers are made with
this in mind. Any further compromise on my part would be close to
compromising my goals for the game. I hope you can understand that.

Iskender

He’s not biting.
So I decide to catch him on chat.

(7:47:44 PM) Iskender: hi
(7:48:04 PM) pocketbeetle: Was just reading your email, sorry - when you sent your message to me my internet died
(7:48:19 PM) Iskender: ok, but you got it right?
(7:48:26 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm confused about something though? Why are you making deals with the Calabim?
(7:48:50 PM) Iskender: because they have BW
(7:48:57 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm not that far from Bronze working, I could have chopped it for you soon
(7:49:14 PM) pocketbeetle: And I'd have done it for free!
(7:49:24 PM) Iskender:
(7:49:49 PM) Iskender: damn
(7:49:54 PM) Iskender: poor communication between us
(7:49:58 PM) pocketbeetle: oh well. So can I quickly ask, am I right in saying they're clearing the 2 gems tiles for you?
(7:50:04 PM) Iskender: yes
(7:50:09 PM) pocketbeetle: What about the pigs at your other city?
(7:50:15 PM) pocketbeetle: Get them to do that too!
(7:50:22 PM) Iskender: they're going to be jungle pigs for a while
(7:50:26 PM) pocketbeetle: lol
(7:50:29 PM) pocketbeetle: special breed
(7:50:34 PM) Iskender: like Pumba
(7:51:20 PM) Iskender: i'm going to research BW myself eventually
(7:51:24 PM) pocketbeetle: okay, well #2 (ie I trade happy for happy) is absolutely fine by me. I just wished you'd asked first, like I say I'm not far from BW at all
(7:51:32 PM) pocketbeetle: yeah, gotta get it sometime
(7:51:46 PM) pocketbeetle: #1 we seem to be clashing unfortunately
(7:52:09 PM) Iskender: at the time i asked i had no idea how far north the jungle is and where is your #4
(7:52:17 PM) Iskender: just saw it bleed over recently
(7:53:18 PM) pocketbeetle: k, even so, I can't agree to 1S of the cows.
I understand and appreciate you trying to say there will only be a monument and temple, but it's still your second ring culture vs my third ring. I don't want to have to start trying to pump culture there, + have it extremely exposed.
I want a settlement in place, preferably on the tile marked
(7:53:40 PM) pocketbeetle: So can we try and work out some other pace for your city?
(7:53:43 PM) pocketbeetle: *place
(7:53:50 PM) pocketbeetle: For starters, how about:
(7:54:24 PM) pocketbeetle: 2S 1E of the cows. That must only overlap (1?) tile with your capital, could work a cottage for it, plus gets both gems etc
(7:55:29 PM) pocketbeetle: picture link here: http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5633/...t0040i.jpg
(7:55:51 PM) pocketbeetle: Is there something particularly bad about that spot?
(7:56:31 PM) Iskender: it shares 4 tiles with the capital
(7:56:44 PM) pocketbeetle: really? okay, that's too many I agree then
(7:56:53 PM) pocketbeetle: How about 1S of the rice
(7:57:11 PM) pocketbeetle: Or 2S of the rice
(7:57:52 PM) pocketbeetle: Rice = farmable food, so it's better than the cows.
(7:59:08 PM) Iskender: too much jungle there. at this stage i wouldn't even want to settle there
(7:59:31 PM) pocketbeetle: I'll clear some for you
(7:59:37 PM) Iskender: i don't see why would you feel exposed by a city 5 tiles away
(8:00:22 PM) pocketbeetle: I'll clear the rice tile, plus also 2-3 river jungle tiles for a new city there
(8:00:30 PM) pocketbeetle: Would that work?
(8:01:05 PM) Iskender: what about the tile SE of the cows?
(8:01:41 PM) pocketbeetle: Again, we've still the problem of 2nd ring culture vs 3rd ring, and again it prohibits me fitting in a settlement there
(8:01:58 PM) pocketbeetle: 2S of the cows?
(8:02:17 PM) pocketbeetle: 2 tiles overlap only with capital, that's nothing wrong with that
(8:02:49 PM) Iskender: but doesn't catch both gems
(8:03:05 PM) Iskender: when can you clear the jungle?
(8:03:25 PM) pocketbeetle: within a reasonable timeframe. When are you expecting the Calabim to clear the Gems?
(8:03:46 PM) Iskender: in 9 turns
(8:03:59 PM) Iskender: first one
(8:04:05 PM) pocketbeetle: Depending on how many tiles you want, I can do similar
(8:04:15 PM) pocketbeetle:
(8:04:45 PM) pocketbeetle: What tiles would you want cleared?
(8:04:59 PM) pocketbeetle: (It's a little hard to tell jungle from that screenshot)
(8:05:15 PM) Iskender: i think rice and 3 grasslands would be OK
(8:05:44 PM) pocketbeetle: I can do that.
(8:05:45 PM) Iskender: i'd settle 1S of the rice
(8:05:52 PM) pocketbeetle: And I'd make sure to do the rice first
(8:06:13 PM) pocketbeetle: Oaky - my only comment is that might make getting irrigation to the rice harder?
(8:06:17 PM) Iskender: how soon would that be?
(8:07:54 PM) pocketbeetle: Rice, I'll send a worker over there almost straight away, by the time he gets there should have BW, sooo 6ish turns to have it cleared
(8:08:40 PM) pocketbeetle: The rest, little longer, but if I send one extra worker soon after, 10 turns? to get more cleared
(8:08:49 PM) pocketbeetle: Sound reasonable?
(8:09:10 PM) Iskender: ok
(8:09:28 PM) Iskender: i'll have a city there by then
(8:10:02 PM) pocketbeetle: Send me a map saying what tiles you want cleared, in what order (draw numbers on them or something) so I know for sure
(8:10:31 PM) Iskender: ok
(8:10:34 PM) pocketbeetle: Is it safe near the goblin fort? I know the other forts are spawning goblins that leave and attack
(8:10:47 PM) Iskender: it's not safe
(8:10:52 PM) Iskender: you'd need at least a warrior
(8:11:10 PM) pocketbeetle: I'll use the Giant for that then
(8:11:32 PM) pocketbeetle: Are you sure about 1S of the rice? Would it not be easier for irrigation to go 2S?
(8:11:33 PM) Iskender: good idea
(8:12:01 PM) Iskender: 4 tiles overlap with other cities
(8:12:16 PM) pocketbeetle: Conrond Mor I think it is?
(8:12:28 PM) pocketbeetle: Or overlapping with unsettled cities?
(8:12:33 PM) Iskender: yes
(8:12:37 PM) Iskender: conrond
(8:12:50 PM) pocketbeetle: Ah okay, I'm a little hazy where your cities are, that's why I'm asking
(8:13:02 PM) pocketbeetle: So, question is: are you okay with this?
(8:13:09 PM) pocketbeetle: Last chance to back out
(8:14:08 PM) Iskender: is there anything i should know that'd affect my decision? like selrahc's city 3 tiles NE?
(8:14:33 PM) pocketbeetle: ? Selrahc definitely has no cities near the screenshot
(8:14:45 PM) Iskender: (i thought Vanilla Ice has a hawk and you've already mapped the area down there)
(8:15:09 PM) pocketbeetle: Yes, Selrahc definitely has no cities near that screenshot, I'm intending to place settlements around there
(8:15:16 PM) Iskender: so i'm OK
(8:15:28 PM) Iskender: 1S of rice for clearing the rice and 3 grasslands
(8:15:40 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay.
(8:15:49 PM) pocketbeetle: Thankyou Iskedner, I really appreciate this
(8:16:02 PM) pocketbeetle: This was very important to me, more than you realise
(8:16:18 PM) pocketbeetle: I'll send a worker over there asap, second will follow soon
(8:16:25 PM) Iskender: ok
(8:16:48 PM) pocketbeetle: Should also let us get a road up soon for trade routes
(8:17:07 PM) pocketbeetle: I saw you're now #2 GNP, beating Selrahc. Impressed
(8:17:36 PM) Iskender: courtesy of Financial
(8:18:04 PM) Iskender: i'd take Raiders every time though
(8:18:22 PM) pocketbeetle: True. Will you be staying Aristocracy? Or switch eventually. You seem to be putting up more cottages
(8:18:54 PM) Iskender: i think i'll stay
(8:20:01 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay, well let me know if anything changes. Like I say, feel free to ask me before making any deals with Calabim, I promise to try and beat any offer they make

Genuinely am slightly miffed that he made a deal to bring Calabim units up to my doorstep, but understand that he didn’t realise the proximity.

I think it’s pretty clear that I strong-armed him into that deal, and it’s also apparent he’s not overjoyed, despite the fact that I pretty much bent over backwards to convince him to settle anywhere else.
I don’t think the deal’s unreasonable though - bunch of jungle cleared free of charge, Rice is better than Cows, plus he has a shot at getting both Gems (not much of one if I stick an OO temple there, but a shot nonetheless).


Outcome:

Iskender settles 1S of the Rice.
I get a settlement in the place indicated & guarantee of Gems game long, for free.
I have to expend worker turns chopping jungle Rice + 3 other grassland tiles.
Note there are no agreements/deals about culture. If my settlement steals that Gems away, if either of us decides to GArt bomb this area, it’s fair game as far as I can see.


Conclusion:

I got what I wanted, and it was important enough to me to risk some bad feeling with a player that I’d like to consider a future ally.
I’ll see if I can sweeten the pot later by throwing in a free Cows resource or something.

Only problem is, all this diplo has been conducted before he sees the Giant + Settler pair over at c4.
c4 being the Sugar settlement right outside his borders.
Uh-oh…

.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 127:

Bronze Working splashscreen on loading the save.
Notice the Trireme mouseover – another reason to get Copper.



Followed swiftly after by GArt bulbing Sanitation.



Dexamenus fortifies at Diso.
Now that the desert gap road is complete, Chromis sprints from Kwythellar to the hill W of Avelorn.



Flying Kes over Chestnut Roast shows that Selrahc has whipped it down to 2 pop to complete a Settler.
If that wasn’t enough, a similar Hawk recon in the North shows he’s also whipped his capital Silent Night to produce a second Settler.
Once settled, that will make 10 cities…



It’s quite clear this guy ain’t pissing around, so I guess I shouldn’t either.
Working a few more coastal tiles at Kwythellar takes Writing down to a 1t tech.

Meanwhile in the South, Riedquat is settled, much to Iskender’s delight I’m sure.



Selrahc building multiple more Settlers makes me wary of him trying to claim the loose Sugar 1E-1NE of Riedquat.
So although I move Settler #2 onto the Copper, if a Hawk next turn shows an Illian Settler heading this way, I’ll probably move to settle c8 first.


Ending turn completes a 1t CA in Kwythellar (I’ll slip in a 2t Library there next) and a Settler in Avelorn, who’ll quickly push out an extra worker or two to cope with the Iskender/Gem deal.
Caledor and Kar Karond grow, Ashen Veil – the one religion I don’t really want to propagate, spreads to KK.




Three 22pt techs in two turns; next up is KotE to quickly build a Mage Guild in Kwythellar before it loses the production bonus. Then Philosophy, which will solve my temporary unhappiness problem in Kwythellar after the Palace jump (and because it’s on the way to Priesthood).
After that, maybe Construction and Priesthood.

So Writing -> KotE -> Philo -> Masonry -> Construction -> Priesthood.
Include the usual disclaimer.


Demographics:

Iskender settled Clar Marrachir this turn.
Calabim gained 22pts.
Looks like Sareln picked up an 11pt tech.

[pocketbeetle]

Diplo

Sent a postcard to Selrahc with some nice rolling Sugar plantations on the front:

Hi Selrahc,

You sent me a note a while back with a comment about settling some Sugar resources soon.
If those Sugar resources were the ones in the jungle to the South, then I’m sorry to inform you that last turn I founded a settlement in the middle of all three.

I’ve had my eye on that area for quite a while, and given the vast tracts of land still unsettled to your North, North-East and East, I felt that you were being a touch greedy in trying to claim the South also. Therefore, I engaged in a minor settler race.

As a token of my regret over this incident, and with a desire to maintain the excellent relations thus far enjoyed with your nation; I’m offering to gift you a Sugar resource free of charge for the short-medium term (once the plantations have been built).
I hope this goes some way to smoothing over any bad feeling.

Apologetically yours,
Pb, SittingOnTheNaughtyStep Boy-King.


PS: Could any courier reply please be accompanied by several boxes of C101: “Change of Citizenship” forms.
It would seem your unusual and excessive use of the whip recently has resulted in a mass exodus of Illians across the border – as indicated by sudden and rapid population decreases in cities across your Empire.
We’ve been housing them all in our barracks, so please don’t be concerned by any fluctuations in soldier count - the Kuriotates remain a peace-loving nation!

NOT SORRY!


Selrahc’s reply:

I'm happy to accept a sugar gift to patch up any hurt feelings. I'm slightly miffed that we couldn't discuss this beforehand though. I sent the same message to Iskender and he was kind enough to come and talk to me about it rather than scramble the troops and rush to the location. That site was basically the limit of my territorial ambitons in that area, and it was entirely about getting a source of sugar. If you can give me that without my having to expend a city then I'm happy with the situation.

It's odd to hear you saying that the site is a reach for me though, considering the relative distance between it and our two capitals. The settler that was en route to the area is going to have to find somewhere else to go, and will be considering locations in the south.

It might be worth offering a sugar to Iskender as well. If you're claiming all three sugars then your city must be right on his borders, which could be somewhat antagonistic. My proposed city site in my talk to him was a lot further away. I'm not sure what your intentions are diplomatically towards the Hippus though, and I'm sure you'll handle it as you see fit.

P.S. Those "refugees" won't need change of citizenship forms. Those rabid curs aren't citizens. Merely the human detritus we use to oil the wheels of the greatest empire in the world. Illian citizens are the proud and noble patrons of the arts, enjoying luxurious monuments, running wondrous marketplaces, debating the issues of the day in council and shaping the mysteries of the ether. We are the ones holding the whips, not cowering from them. I am not at all surprised that the parasites that flee from their masters have flocked to your saccharine halls to live. By encouraging them you encourage a rot and decay that will one day consume you from within. When your mercy and liberty fail the cold majesty of the Illian empire will be there waiting.

Until then I remain yours
Selrahc, Chief Advisor to the Winter King

He’s fine with it, including an excellent paragraph at the end.

Slight quibble:

It's odd to hear you saying that the site is a reach for me though, considering the relative distance between it and our two capitals.

I didn’t say it was a reach for you Charlie, I said it was greedy of you considering all the unsettled land elsewhere.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s the right move to make on your part!
But so was me getting there first.

The settler that was en route to the area is going to have to find somewhere else to go

:rolleyes: Streeeeeetching!

He’s right about Iskender though.
I’m just waiting to see if the Hippus contact me first about the Sugar settlement.


Ah…here we go!

Hello wise king Pockebeetle

I'm worried about you settling on the sugar site. I had plans for this
area. Actually, we had the sugars split with Selrahc and now you
claimed all of them without any notice.

Iskender

Greetings Fleetfooted and Clever Iskender, Leader of the Hippus!

I’ve been owing you a message so thanks for the reminder, and I’m really glad you felt able to contact me about this.
Regarding the Sugars: the Illians sent me a message a few turns ago saying they intended to settle there very soon.

Now, I don’t know if you’ve been following Selrahc’s progress, but he’s been expanding very rapidly.
He’s currently on eight cities, and last turn he whipped two more Settlers so when they reach their destinations he’ll be on TEN cities.
Something you may not know: Selrahc has an entire continent unsettled in his backlines, and because of his war with Cull there is no-one to contest it – it’s definitely all his.
Therefore, all these reasons combined with that note saying he wanted to push South (not North!), made me worried enough to send my own Settler there asap.

Anyway, that’s Selrahc, and doesn’t get any sugar for your cups of tea.
Looking at the map, I think this is a similar situation to Gems, and since you helped me out there, I want to try and repay the favour.
How about I promise to gift you a Sugar for free?

I would ask for only a tiny tiny favour in return: I noticed you have a spare Wines in your territory. I would like to ask that you make the Kuriotates your preferred trading partner for them.
What that means is, you will do your best to trade one of that resource with me.
It doesn’t mean I’ll screw you over, just means so long as I offer you fair value, eg another happy resource that you don’t have (not Sugar), you’ll do your best to trade one of those resources with me.
And that takes precendence over any deals you have with anyone else, eg Calabim etc.

How does that sound?

Kind Regards,
Pb, Merchant Boy-King

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 128:

Writing splashscreen on loading the save, worth noting the low hammer cost, high culture of TGL.



I also get an irrelevant event – healing and +1xp to one of the future Dancing Bears.
In the forest behind, poor Pixiefoot persists in puling piteously from pain.



Sareln also received an event, sea turtles (+1f to a coastal tile), near his FoL holy city.
Unfortunately for him, I found the tile via mouseover and turns out it’s located 2SE of the city, ie outside his workable BFC and therefore useless. :thumbsdow
Nevermind! (I guess he could always lash them together with human hair...)

Hawk flyover couldn’t quite get vision on Wonderful Time, but did reveal that Selrahc’s capital is now guarded by a single unpromoted warrior.



While in the South, the Calabim worker continues heading towards the Gems, and Iskender shows up with an Archer unit in Conrond Mor.
Hawk flyover showed no trace of the Settler produced in Chestnut Roast last turn, so Reorte was founded on the Copper.



One worrying thing is the Hippus Warrior South of KK.
Iskender had yet to contact me about the Sugar settlement at this time, and I was concerned by this unit suddenly moving back (it disappeared last turn) onto a tile he had already explored.
I was speculating that Iskender might ‘misclick’ the Warrior onto one of the hills North to get vision on KK, so moved Priapus and the GArt out.
If he does do that, then I’ll cancel OB to kick the Warrior back, getting rid of the Scout near Reorte/Riedquat also.



Research back to 50%, ending turn gave me another WLTK day in Avelorn.
Extra ~10 gold next turn, can’t complain.


Demographics:

Nothing interesting happening! (It’s all in the diplo)