[Spoilers] Biggus Decius and the Sucking Vampires (Bobchillingworth / Calabim)

[DaveV]

Just a post from a lurker but couldn't you do some sort of similer worker exchange with the Winter elves as your ally... His workers can build towns within Forests So couldn't you Gift a heavily forested city to him, have his workers town spam in the forests, then he gifts it back?

Yes, but then if I worked the forest/cottage tile, it would just count as a forest for me. I'd have to chop the forest to work the cottage. In general, I'd rather have a farm than a cottage anyway.

Either way you are looking good, a proper army soon with Morai and Catapults and Chariots, Those insane amounts of barbarians will soon be running for their lives, hope you get a religion soon before the dragon-boy steals them all, you mentioned Ashen viel, order and the Council of Esus previously i think, but ashen is gone and the other two seem like ones the hippus might try and get as well for the Horse Hero or the Shadow Riders.

I have to research Feudalism next: I've taken too many detours already. If the Mines of Gal-Dur are still available when it's time to pick a religion, I'll spend at least some time worshipping Kilmorph. The temples also would be handy for some extra cash (and happiness if I score a gems resource). And I could use Soldiers of Kilmorph to jump-start new cities.

I'll probably want something stronger offensively eventually.

You could always except the elvish religion for a bit to get those priests that give tigers. Instant extra happiness in Carnival cities.

Not to mention +3 culture. Hunting will also give me +1 happy from Ivory. Nevertheless, FoL is at best my #3 priority, behind Feudalism and Arete.

[Bobchillingworth]

hope you get a religion soon before the dragon-boy steals them all, you mentioned Ashen viel, order and the Council of Esus previously i think, but ashen is gone and the other two seem like ones the hippus might try and get as well for the Horse Hero or the Shadow Riders.

You could always except the elvish religion for a bit to get those priests that give tigers. Instant extra happiness in Carnival cities.

- Ravus

Thanks for the comments =)

I believe that the holy cities for everything except the Order, Empyrean, and possibly the Council have already been established in other empires. Getting a holy city isn't a really big deal though; the main reasons to get something like the veil are for the priests, unique civics, hero (none of the religious heroes have been built yet), and temples.

Sareln might be able to do the tiger merging for us. I know that he can found temples in other people's territory, so hopefully he can build tiger cages as well.


Alas there really aren't any good candidate cities for gifting back and forth to get forest cottages. Plus that's too "gamey" for my tastes.

[DaveV]

I believe that the holy cities for everything except the Order, Empyrean, and possibly the Council have already been established in other empires. Getting a holy city isn't a really big deal though; the main reasons to get something like the veil are for the priests, unique civics, hero (none of the religious heroes have been built yet), and temples.

Also, most of the shrines give useful mana. Of course, if someone else wants to build the shrines for us, that would be fine.

Sareln might be able to do the tiger merging for us. I know that he can found temples in other people's territory, so hopefully he can build tiger cages as well.

Unfortunately, no. I tried a worldbuilder test, and the priest "build temple" spell works in foreign territory, but the "build tiger cage" spell doesn't.

[Amelia]

I think the reason for that is that the "build tiger cage" is not exactly a spell, but what the prophet's have. It's the same as the "build holy shrine" skill that Great Prophets have in Vanilla, not a spell.

However, the build temple needs to be a spell since it also spreads the religion... at least, this is what i think.

[Bobchillingworth]

Also, most of the shrines give useful mana. Of course, if someone else wants to build the shrines for us, that would be fine.

Actually, about this- of the three shrines left, we don't need the mana from Nox Noctis because we have Shadow already (although the "all units in your borders are invisible" effect is obviously sweet), and the Code of Junil is pointless because we also already have Law Mana. But the Sun Mana from the Empyrean might actually be useful, considering how much ice we have in the south. Not a major priority, I think, especially since Kilmorph, Order, and Veil all work much better with vamps, but would save you having to trade for PB's palace Sun.


Oh and I will be amazed if you somehow manage to get the Mines- surely PB must want them for denial or to trade the iron, if nothing else. If the Mines do fall to PB or whoever, then perhaps consider summoning Basium for his iron- we need Fanaticism anyway for Losha. Also I'd probably jump through any number of hoops to get FFH installed on my laptop if we could play together as some sort of abominable Angel/Vampire coalition (assuming you can add another human player to the game after it has already started) =)


Oh and while the Runes are an okay choice for religion (Bambur, temples, etc. as has been discussed already), you aren't thinking of marching catapults with your vampires, are you? Because it would largely negate the purpose of Raiders if you did. Another reason why the Veil is probably the best long-term choice.

[DaveV]

Actually, about this- of the three shrines left, we don't need the mana from Nox Noctis because we have Shadow already (although the "all units in your borders are invisible" effect is obviously sweet), and the Code of Junil is pointless because we also already have Law Mana. But the Sun Mana from the Empyrean might actually be useful, considering how much ice we have in the south. Not a major priority, I think, especially since Kilmorph, Order, and Veil all work much better with vamps, but would save you having to trade for PB's palace Sun.

Actually, I had in mind the sun mana, in case I conquer some of Selrahc's cities, and the water from the Necronomicon, so I could Spring my desert tiles. Obviously not a possiblity in the near future, but it would be a nice thing to capture.

Oh and I will be amazed if you somehow manage to get the Mines- surely PB must want them for denial or to trade the iron, if nothing else. If the Mines do fall to PB or whoever, then perhaps consider summoning Basium for his iron- we need Fanaticism anyway for Losha. Also I'd probably jump through any number of hoops to get FFH installed on my laptop if we could play together as some sort of abominable Angel/Vampire coalition (assuming you can add another human player to the game after it has already started) =)

Heh, that would be cool. The Mercurian Gate is actually cheaper than the Mines, although it comes a lot later in the tech tree.

If PB builds the Mines, again it would make it really attractive to capture that city. Just holding it for a turn while it was connected to my other cities would be a nice boost.

Oh and while the Runes are an okay choice for religion (Bambur, temples, etc. as has been discussed already), you aren't thinking of marching catapults with your vampires, are you? Because it would largely negate the purpose of Raiders if you did. Another reason why the Veil is probably the best long-term choice.

No, the catapults are strictly a stopgap to protect me from a big invading stack while I keep teching toward Feudalism. Veil priests would be pretty handy to have, and the beakers from the temples would be a nice boost, but I don't want to deal with Blight given my health woes.

Another possiblity would be fireballing mages. No one has built Form of the Titan yet; couple that with Apprenticeship and Command Posts, and my adepts would be born with 6XP. Win one combat against a weakened foe, and they're ready for promotion. I'd need lots of gold to pay for the upgrades, though.

[Bobchillingworth]

No, the catapults are strictly a stopgap to protect me from a big invading stack while I keep teching toward Feudalism. Veil priests would be pretty handy to have, and the beakers from the temples would be a nice boost, but I don't want to deal with Blight given my health woes.

Another possiblity would be fireballing mages. No one has built Form of the Titan yet; couple that with Apprenticeship and Command Posts, and my adepts would be born with 6XP. Win one combat against a weakened foe, and they're ready for promotion. I'd need lots of gold to pay for the upgrades, though.

I wouldn't worry too much about the blight, since "Last Days" is disabled, and even spreading the Veil to a dozen cities won't get you more than halfway to AC 30 at most from its present level.

If you do get hit with the blight though, it's gonna really suck. Another reason to finally build some granaries and smokehouses! :neenernee


Firemages are cool, but you only have one node to play around with, and I think that turning it into a death node to boost spectres is more important. One option if you decide to not mess with the Veil for whatever reason is lightening mages (or whatever the spell that Wind II gives). I think the Hippus get free palace Wind mana, so you could always try to borrow some from Iskender.

[DaveV]

The big news this turn:



I sent an email to Iskender:

I noyiced PB has declared war on you. Do you need any help?

And he replied:

The war is of the same kind as between you and me, but thanks for the offer, I appreciate it. If my relations with Pb get ugly I won't hesitate to give you a notice.

But I'll play dumb and send a PM to PB as well, hoping to hear his side of the story:

I noticed in the log that you've declared war on Iskender. What's up?

Paranoid interpretation: PB is coming to attack me. However, he already had open borders with Iskender, so he actually loses movement speed through his territory by declaring war.

[Bobchillingworth]

Hmm. So PB seemed really unworried about an attack from Iskender when I messaged him way back after Iskender popped the worldspell. Then he had rapidly spiking power, and how he's in a peaceful "worker-exchange" war with our neighbor?

Possibly he got the idea from when I told him about why you re-declared on the Hippus and decided to do arrange some similar deal for himself. And his power might just be to deter Selrahc and/or Iskender.

But this is all really suspicious-sounding to me, and I think you're right to be paranoid. If he is ever going to try to keep us from getting vamps, now would have to be the time. If he attacks it'll likely be with centaur archers, so I'd shift enough defenders to the West to be able to deal with some large 3-mover stacks.


Just don't get too carried away with the diplo accusations, for right now let's pretend to take Iskender at his word and play innocent with PB. If he really isn't coming for us, then there's no reason to alienate the guy with two really useful palace mana and some unique luxuries. If I catch him on chat, I'll of course let you know everything.

[DaveV]

The power rating for Centaur Archers is 18, which I think is a little high for some of the powergraph jumps when I was eyballing them. PB also has the stooges, so a strong slow-moving stack (maybe with mobility promotion) is a possiblity. An aside: the more I think about it, the more likely it was one of the stooges that was so conveniently waiting to kill my scout as it emerged from PB's territory.

Along with the save, I sent a request to Sareln to fly a hawk recon mission over Iskender's territory.